vizwhiz Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 how about dividing up The workflow something along The Lines of To create a matrix, like Imperial vs Metric Exterior vs Interior Site Bldg Landscape 1. modeling 2. materials/lighting/rendering 3. photoshop/after post/composition software, must have a TEAM with compatible softwares rendering capability, rendering farm and DONT FORGET someone has To GET THE CLIENT 1st Then decipher what The HELL THeY WANT and Then outline The workflow distribute The workflow To who is AVAILABLE and go from There other possible issues To consider FTP site, preliminary client approval contract issues and of course $ per each person participating ++++ just a conceptual idea of how To do a project how would you do This? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I am just trying to gauge where your fervent capitalism stops. Have you ever been to China? I own a small studio there. It's definitely not a sweat shop. It has air-conditioning! Kidding aside, it's actually in a "Class A" building in Shenzhen, China. It even has a Rolls Royce and Ferrari dealership on the first floor. My point is not to brag. It's just that I have been to China a few times and I know first hand that a lot of people there live very well. In fact, I bet most of the Chinese artists that are competing with you live very well also. I would also like to point out that in less than 5 years I have created a company that employees over 40 employees in the US of A. They are all American citizens just like you and me. They are paid well, I provide them a very nice work environment, and they rarely work overtime. The way I like to approach my obstacles is that I turn negatives into positives. The glass is always 1/2 Full. I noticed in your profile that you are a teacher. I guess that means you like to learn. So, let me suggest a good business book for you. It's called: Blue Ocean Strategy: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make Competition Irrelevant The point of this book is that you should avoid "Red Oceans" which are battlegrounds with your competitors. Instead you should focus on standing apart from them and find new and better ways to do business. I think good business practice is what we should be focusing on now. Not alarmist rhetoric. Anyway, it's your choice whether you want to listen and act or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I don't think I asked you about your shop, or insinuated you ran a sweat shop, I asked about the edges of what reasonable capitalism is in your eyes? For instance, illegal software, is it OK to make money using, or knowingly hire someone using it? I also wonder what kind of responsibilities you believe a business might have over just making money. Especially when they are investing in an area whose government has poor human rights, and environmental records. Did I miss your answer to those questions, or do I have to read the book to get to those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I don't think I asked you about your shop, or insinuated you ran a sweat shop, I asked about the edges of what reasonable capitalism is in your eyes? For instance, illegal software, is it OK to make money using, or knowingly hire someone using it? I also wonder what kind of responsibilities you believe a business might have over just making money. Especially when they are investing in an area whose government has poor human rights, and environmental records. Did I miss your answer to those questions, or do I have to read the book to get to those? Hhmm....you want to turn this thread into a political discussion? This is CGArchitect and I'm not into politics. The only thing I can respond is that a good business needs to respect laws. Mine certainly does. Oh, and by the way, the US has such a great track record when it comes to the environment and human rights. Let's not practice selective history. Just think of Nagasaki and Hiroshima for a moment. So many innocent people were vaporized in an instant (after the war was practically won). Did you read about that? Or have you been too busy drinking lattes and walking around in Birkenstocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 so your answer is Hiroshima, let's throw in "the trail of tears" while you're on a roll. Does that affect Japanese labor rates, carbon footprint, and political discourse within Japan on a daily basis? I'm just asking you a question. And trying not to spill my latte into the keyboard laughing. No is a reasonable answer, and it is telling you cite law instead of what you believe is right and wrong. But I appreciate you treat your people well, maybe their kids will rebel and wear Birkenstocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hhmm....you want to turn this thread into a political discussion? This is CGArchitect and I'm not into politics. The only thing I can respond is that a good business needs to respect laws. Mine certainly does. Oh, and by the way, the US has such a great track record when it comes to the environment and human rights. Let's not practice selective history. Just think of Nagasaki and Hiroshima for a moment. So many innocent people were vaporized in an instant (after the war was practically won). Did you read about that? Or have you been too busy drinking lattes and walking around in Birkenstocks? Now why you gotta go and do that? If you're going to go personal at least be creative about your gross mischaracterizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Now why you gotta go and do that? If you're going to go personal at least be creative about your gross mischaracterizations. You believe what you chose to believe. My point is that no country is perfect. "Gross Mischaracterizations"? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Guys, There are three threads going right now, each with a different title and all of them always going back to the same thing. I'm getting so damn confused, I just posted something that should have been in here in another thread. This thread should only be about the development of what we are trying to do thats it. Now I'm all about arguing on this issue, but please no more in this thread. There are so many things that I want to say in here but im going to stop myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 so your answer is Hiroshima, let's throw in "the trail of tears" while you're on a roll. Does that affect Japanese labor rates, carbon footprint, and political discourse within Japan on a daily basis? I'm just asking you a question. And trying not to spill my latte into the keyboard laughing. No is a reasonable answer, and it is telling you cite law instead of what you believe is right and wrong. But I appreciate you treat your people well, maybe their kids will rebel and wear Birkenstocks. Lol...if it was noon I would have spilled my Frapuccino My answer is that I do care and wouldn't intentionally do anything to take advantage or hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 (edited) My answer is that I do care and wouldn't intentionally do anything to take advantage or hurt anyone. You hurt me with that Birkenstock jibe. Edited June 8, 2008 by znotlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 You believe what you chose to believe. My point is that no country is perfect. "Gross Mischaracterizations"? Come on.... You don't want to argue modern Japanese history, coffee or hippies. But what's the point? We're talking about particular business practices here. If you have the ability to send work to China, why shouldn't some people be able to send work to the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litleboy Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 AJLynn will it be correct if you delete, ban or move certain posts when the go too much out of the thread? I wont mind to have a cleaner and more focus thread. about the rendering team, I had a project on the architectural design field and was about to implement before the market started to go down, it was to have a freelance team ready to take projects but represented with local offices, so clients wont feel they are sending work to companies they don't know and feel secure, they will have a local guy to complain or pay it could work like the companies that have representatives on certain cities and they can't go around them. Going more deep on to the peer to peer rendering farm. Members could have access to the render farm and earn credits by sharing their PC to use the render farm or cash the credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 AJLynn will it be correct if you delete, ban or move certain posts when the go too much out of the thread? I wont mind to have a cleaner and more focus thread. about the rendering team, I had a project on the architectural design field and was about to implement before the market started to go down, it was to have a freelance team ready to take projects but represented with local offices, so clients wont feel they are sending work to companies they don't know and feel secure, they will have a local guy to complain or pay it could work like the companies that have representatives on certain cities and they can't go around them. Going more deep on to the peer to peer rendering farm. Members could have access to the render farm and earn credits by sharing their PC to use the render farm or cash the credits. Now we're getting somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Going more deep on to the peer to peer rendering farm. Members could have access to the render farm and earn credits by sharing their PC to use the render farm or cash the credits. A good idea in theory, but outside of a controlled environment (ie a render farm company) I think the logistics of getting this to work, would be a nightmare. Transferring files, plug-ins, sending files to your competitors computers etc. This would be a huge undertaking. It's hard enough for renderfarm companies to sort out issues sometimes, never mind trying to do this across hundreds of independent locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litleboy Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 ir we are going to be presented as a company this comany can own all the libraries, files, etc. or we can even think bigger and create a encripted trasnmision file to be used atomatically by the render engine. yes its huge but not imposible. IMHO now the idea is that the members/employess or participants they need to comply some requirments. any one interested in keep doing business will be more than happy to follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znotlin Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 (edited) My apologies for getting carried away there, originally I was really trying to get at the question of software legality. And if this thing takes off, is licensed software going to be a criteria for the artists participating...or is that going to be don't ask don't tell. If I was the one "leading" it up, and had some business relationship to the participating artists, I certainly would have some reservations about it, and what could come back on me. Similarly, anyone whose aim it is to play the system for maximum advantage will submit for jobs at their price and then send the work to Asia, and how are you gonna regulate that, or are you? I was curious as to Eddie's stand as the most eloquent of the free trade capitalists just to establish exactly how far to the right this ship was keeling. But I got off track my bad. Edited June 8, 2008 by znotlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I totally understand Zeke, and I agree the software legality should play one of the most important roles in this. I know there is a lot of issues that need to be discussed on this. I was just hoping we could keep one thread for issues and one thread for development, and although they go hand and hand, it can be really easy to get off track and the next thing you know we're arguing again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 So then, the organization needs to keep a file of everybody's relevant software licenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I was curious as to Eddie's stand as the most eloquent of the free trade capitalists just to establish exactly how far to the right this ship was keeling. I guess that's a compliment? My ship doesn't lean to the right or left. But, I'm voting for Obama if you are curious. By the way, I don't believe in the use of pirated software. But, are you working for Autodesk or something? That multi-billion dollar operation isn't hurting one bit. Or, is it that you just want to find an easy way to block your competitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 It's not that. It's that operating illegally to save money when your competition is operating legally and paying more is a clear violation of the precepts of free trade capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 It's not that. It's that operating illegally to save money when your competition is operating legally and paying more is a clear violation of the precepts of free trade capitalism. I agree 100% with you. But, that's not my battle to fight. Also, the cost of software is a very small percentage of a company's overhead. Whether or not they pay for it they can still be a lot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I agree 100% with you. But, that's not my battle to fight. Also, the cost of software is a very small percentage of a company's overhead. Whether or not they pay for it they can still be a lot cheaper. If your employees make much less, your rates are much lower but the software costs the same or more in some cases, it's a larger percentage of your expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Its hard enough to manage a small team in the office, recourcing alone. Imagine trying to do that with several people around the world. Freelances by their very nature are flexible, both good and bad. This businass practice make a very scary assumption, That everyone will be available to jump in at a drop of a hat. This is just too simple in idea and far too complex in practice. In the office managment of the team is vital. Its as important, and in some cases more so, than the artist. Who is going to manage the freelancers?, who would manage the job/client. Who is going to manage the sales, getting more jobs in? Who is going to manage the finances? Who is responcible legally? Doing the actual work is the easy part. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 If your employees make much less, your rates are much lower but the software costs the same or more in some cases, it's a larger percentage of your expenses. Yes, but you don't need to be cheaper. You just need to be better and more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Its hard enough to manage a small team in the office, recourcing alone. Imagine trying to do that with several people around the world. Freelances by their very nature are flexible, both good and bad. This businass practice make a very scary assumption, That everyone will be available to jump in at a drop of a hat. This is just too simple in idea and far too complex in practice. Running a business is not supposed to be easy. If it was then everyone would do it and you would have even more competition. I guess all I can suggest to you is that "when there is a will there is a way." I have found solutions to my problems and I now own a successful company. There's no reason why you can't do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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