garethace Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I just wanted to discuss this with some of you here perhaps - I am sort of comparing two ideas to see how they rub off one another, so to speak. The first idea relates to software like the game called Total War: Shogun, Medieval and the upcoming Rome. The second idea is about Morphosis and what I can only describe as the idea of making a scrap intervention into the landscape, similar to what a hen might do if it were looking for food. This notion runs right through all of their projects, but I have found that using software like gaming, as in the Total War series, where you learn to control lots and lots of people on the scale of a battle field - reminds me a lot of the grand scale notions expressed in the schemes of morphosis. What do you think? [ January 10, 2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 [ January 10, 2004, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 [ January 10, 2004, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ras Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Hi Gareth Sounds interesting - could you elaborate a little more on your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Landscape architecture, or 'surface' architecture, is not limited to Morphosis. If you read Stan Allen's 'From Object to Field' he goes into some of the generative ideas. Peter Eisenman is another to look at. His landscape work, using lines as 'excavation' tools, he sought to instigate the history of the site, thereby revealing the layers beneath. I can't recall the name of his book (I've got it in the basement) from the mid '80s that is all about landscapes. From there, he went onto Derrida and decon, then to Delueze (and only God knows where he is now ). Taking the landscape ideas into the forms of the buildings. Look at his El Croquis - great stuff, esp. the Church for the Year 2000 (that Meier ended up winning and was just completed). Bernard Tschumi also works with surface/landscape design, take a look at Parc de le Lavette. Similar ideas around the same time - Eisenman was one of the finalists for that competition, as well. Zaha Hadidis another lover of the landscape, she just incorporates the 'surface' as a more dynamic part of her designs. There are a few more that dealt directly with the 'field' theories and 'chaos' theories - strange attractors and all the other catch words that never really made it to lasting fame. It's old ideas that took on new forms with the advent of Alias|Wavefront and Maya, not to mention Delueze's ideas of 'folds'. Good stuff that generated some great architecture, unfortunatly, most was never built. For Morphosis, their Diamond Ranch is one of the best (for anyone,really). It's great ideas and it would be wild to see something like Max's Character Studio used to generate pathes through designs. I am sure it's being worked on somewhere, to help design airports and arenas, but it'd be nice to see it trickle down to the 'designer' level. Cheers. Always good topice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Hi guys, well I am just taking about landscapes here that you can mould or re-shape - not all landscapes do allow that. But a lot of them do. I mean earth is something which can to a degree be eaten into and eroded etc, to make certain jestures. In relation to the Shogun Total War Strategy game - I do find it interesting how many simultaneous controls the game has in the viewport to manipulate and to check status of various units as they are called in the game. Read this article here about Johan De Gelas and study a little bit about gaming AI and get back to me again. http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000356 You will also see what I am getting at here: http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=105061341 I tend to prefer the dual, or three monitor option for effective use of CAD systems too, and many of the games out there at the moment allow me an efficient method of learning how to 'spread' my work over 3200x1200 pixels worth of display resolution. In terms of my work - architecture - it moved from the drawing board right when I was finishing up in college. I am interested in games mainly for one reason - because everyday people are able to use games to manipulate very complex actions, strategies, maneuvers and commands - which would indicate, that a draughting or modelling system on a computer should be capable of becoming much more than the glorified word processor that CAD companys have moulded it into. Imagine having a new game system and using some strategy game with a screen large enough, say 20-inch to have your map opened, a 3D window, a lot of dialgoes, messaging and some monitoring of health/status etc. A lot of stuff on one screen - but it does tend to replicate sort of what it was like years ago on the gigantic drrawing boards we used, when you just flung out all your stuff on the board and developed a kind of stategy for the design of your building. That is it really, I am thinking about how computers and peoples minds work to solve and analyse complex problems. Now, commmon games have managed to do this - but the way in which CAD is used today, doesn't instill myself or many of the very experienced architects with a lot of confidence in computers as replacing the drawing board. This Alt-Tab stuff is a joke. I found that because software like AutoCAD started off on systems with incredibly simple graphics display resolution, slow network cards, and flickering monitors that made peoples' eye very sore - that software such as AutoCAD, never was used the same way as a good high end DX8 game is used today - on a decent display, input device, gpu, cpu etc. I recommend anyone interested in this to have a look at the CATIA screenshots over at www.ibm.com Of course, those CATIA systems were very expensive once. Similarly with the Bentley/Intergraph MicroStation Workstations in the past - a very good alternative to AutoCAD, designed to run on two monitors - to increase the desktop area. The future of gaming seems to be double monitors I think, since the cards are good enough now and flatscreens don't take up that much space. However in 1999/2000 that all seemed like a long, way away. :-( But now you have the upcoming DX9 interfaces of MicroSoft Longhorn, you have things like HT on all Intel chips, you have a totally new BTX computer form factor to allow greater graphics capability using PCI Express. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13425 Read that article and also the links at the very end of the article. By the time you have absorbed even half of that, a month will have gone by, but it will give you a more broad minded view of how computers could develop and become very useful for Architects. I.e. Forget about a single monitor in future. Expect to be using the same display area as an A2 drawing board at least. Expect to be multitasking and doing a lot more things at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Basically, while a lot of computer software out there claims to be very suitable for architects because it draws/models doors and windows instead of lines and arcs - I believe that software will only be really useful for architects when it finally becomes to model or draw the kinds of things which architects think in terms of - that is numbers of people who are going to use the eventual structure and get around the institution. If it is possible to control armies of these little guys running around the screne, then why can't that notion be applied to architectural design software? Stupid idea, stupid question - but I think now that computers are reaching maturity, it is time for some refreshing and new ideas. Because people seem to have written them off basically at this stage, and people seem to feel a heck of a lot more comfortable now that 'computers have failed' to help the way that architects design anything. Oh well, it just means a few less billion for AutoDesk I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Some images here describe how computers can cope with design of larger scale built environments, like large stadia etc, or public exhibition places. Or how to study the form of that fancy roof plane you imagine. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d01.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d02.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d03.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d04.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d05.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=MSJ3d06.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Not many cities have these kinds of spaces, these kinds of buildings - and not to mention, that where buildings go this high, saving some land to use as purely open space is very unlightly. http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel01.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel02.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel03.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel04.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel05.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel06.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel07.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel08.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel09.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel10.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Massingmodel11.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Much of the dilemma surrounding urban design is how to build in 'time'. There are numerous examples of failed public space that seemed an easy solution and ended as dead space. Rockefeller Center comes to mind. It was dead at first, an open space with no purpose. People would not know what to do, where to go, why it was there, etc. Then some artist put that rink in there and it helped to bring it to life, and now it has become one of the more memorable public spaces. So open space does not necessarily make it good space (there is space like this in Boston now, too). If one looks at the greatest cities in the world, the ones with the most pedestrian and intimate charm, like Rome, Paris, and other greats, you will quickly see how there has been the emergence of 'layers' over time. This can be the random path through an alley where construction has randomly built upon itself, creating an ad hoc built environment, but within this path unique shops show up, coffee houses, and over time, it becomes a central pedestrian route due to it's unique combination of random space and small shops. This is what makes these cities special and add depth, random depth, to the experience. Venice, with its hallway-width pathes that open to great piazzas is the ultimate example. Architects and Urban planners have been trying to figure out how to 'build time' into the new projects. This is where Tsuchmi, with his juxtaposed programs, Eisenman, with his excavated layers, try to harness the potential of the random happenings and incorporate them the first time around. Almost all contemporary urban schemes attempt to do this to some degree, although surely more pragmatically than theortically. Chaos theory was becoming 'the thing' while I was in school, and we looked at all the fun stuff like strange attractors, fields, flocking, etc., etc. What was particularly interesting is the relationship between the micro and macro, the solar system and the flocking birds, and how an incredibly complex organizational model emerges out of the seemingly random grouping of objects. This is how a crowd of people operates, and this is the methodology that one must look at to try and capture some of the charm that, typically, only emerges over a great many years. It's hit or miss, really, but it's a powerful advance beyond large square spaces with rectinilear fountains and plantings. So, if there is to be an analytical tool for large, urban spaces, it must use a random crowd technique for the 'flocking effect', then begin to randomly add 'sedimentation' to build up layers, then later, the architect/planner must figure out the program for these places. This could happen before hand, by adding certain programmatical pieces, analysizing the real world relationships they've created (think Starbucks), and then plug it into the program. Max's character studio has a crowd generator that detects collisions and randomly disperses people, and with reactor, can surely create fields of gravity that attract people (this is Greg Lynn's pioneering approach using Maya's dynamics). The big problem with all this is similar to the monkey throughing the darts at stocks and beating Wallstreet analysists (he's won, and yes, they really do it, more times than not, if not all), is that all the technology and thought can never adequately predict the fickle behavior of people. It's a crap shoot that one just tries to make an educated decision on. Imho, in the end, software like this will be a tool, but it will, inevitably, come down to the natural vision and talent of the designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Have a read of this thread. http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&postid=19919#post19919 But look at cities in the communist countries, where vast open spaces and large frozen rivers dominate the city scape. Helsinki has a huge seafront which is awesome, and I am sure developed over a long period of time. I mean, different cultures wearing different clothes and also using space very differently too. From the Eskimos in the Igloos to the women in Saudi wearing clothes to cover themselves totally. Whatever about chaos, something that was quite predictable, was the way in which different cultures moved, created space etc. In fact, in some parts of the world old cities, were overlaid by new cities over time, as various empires rose and fell. I am thinking here about those scenes of bible-like times in 'Black Hawk Down' where the helicopters are flying over the 'Aid lorries' where the crowds are rushing at. All created in CG of course - I recommend the DVD 'How it was made' of Black Hawk Down, to understand how convincing computerised stuff can be in real footage. I particularly like the way bullets were done in that money, without endangering actors at the same time. If you think about the weird situation in Communist times of Russia making everyplace look the same. Now with USA rebuilding infrastructure they bombed in countries a long way away from them. To use the strategy computer game analogy - I guess, America would be the country in the strategy game with 'unlimited resources'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Oh, and as a side note, there have been students (I can recall at least one thesis at Sci-Arc) who have attempted to answer these questions by utilizing technology. In this case, the guy wrote some pretty sophisticated scripts for Maya where you could enter the specs for the building, the site conditions, wind, sun, etc. etc. and it would 'create' the buildings - it was impressive, to say the least. But, in the end, it was still generic and lacked any sophistication (beyond the programming aspects). Throughout history there have been several artists and architects that have tried to capture the random (Duschamp's string, Tschumi's dropped red paper for Parc De Lavette). It's a hard thing to do and, personally, I feel that the ripped up and tossed pieces of paper are as valid as the complex computer analysis. In the end, there is a lot of luck to planning and a lot of intuition (visiting the world's greatest spaces surely helps a lot). But this may be changing as the techology from medical and space trickle down and we get algorithms that are significantly more complex than what's there today. Who knows. It will be interesting to see how these fields incroporate the combination of Hollywood driven chaos and space/medical chaos to create ever more complex organizations. This will have to happen as cities plan farther and farther into the future (Denver, where I am moving, has a rather large development of 30,000 that looks well thought out - the Stapleton, I believe it's called). We can't afford to have another LA and have to incorporate the complex traffic patterns of cars and pedestrians. I just hope that the gov't has enough foresight to give funding to companies to advance the software quick enough (like UCLA's Urban Simulatin studio that has mapped all of LA in 3D, in real time - pretty amazing, but oh so costly to do). Of course, with our current admin., we will be lucky if we can do anything for the sake of progress...but I'll leave the politics at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbr Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I agree that the software will play a role, but I think it will be a while before it can be relied on. Character Studio and the flocking that takes place (I believe I recall seeing some of the crowd compositing done in Black Hawk Down) will be interesting to see how it is applied at the conceptional level. This was all in its infancy when I was in school and I am sure it's moved farther ahead. I am sure there are firms out there that do use these concepts, perhaps even custom software. Mostly overseas, I'd guess, where they are putting put huge cities all at once. Much of it is common sense, of course, like cut a path through an urban core and put shops and cafes along it - most likely it will draw people into it. Denver has a nice example of this, and, in many ways, is one of the more accessible and thought out cities I've been to in the US. I'd like to see how software is used not just to anticipate flocking and crowds, but how things happen when juxtaposed to vehicular traffic, subway stops, etc., on several sectional levels (like NY or London). The WTC should be the most up to date approach (or so I hope) that this country has seen and there will be much discussion about it's success or failure. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 What you never had in LA, which prevailed in Medieval Europe for ages, was war, death, plague, rulers, tyrants and conquests. Given the checkered history of Europe with armies, naval superiority, Roman Road building, barbarian hordes, and so many different layers of sophistication and barbarism - it would be hard for LA to even simulate that except maybe in that movie about LA running short of water. America has a big enough military machine to keep things pretty straight and narrow. Given that is how Roman towns were built too, it is perhaps not surprising that LA is all straight lines. I saw an interesting documentary about Country Music in America last night, and how it went from good Victorian values of freight trains and ranches, to the Texas oil boom years of bar brawls and broken marriages, to the Nashville sound with the coming of popular music. Architecture, like music depends a lot on shifts and changes like that. A funny one, was Hank Williams was playing to a crowd, and the very young Elvis was about to come on. So the crowd were impatient and kept shouting 'Elvis, we want Elvis'. So Hank just stopped singing and said - Okay, can you just shut up for this last number, and then we will bring the little bastard on. LOL. you have a very rich history of music in the United States, created out of turmoils and revolutions - but Europe, Asia, middle east still has the best architecture created out of a similar situation spanning over centuries. Don't forget that Capability Brown erased very many nice Medieval Gardens to create his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 The Plans For Downtown Brooklyn Ignore Both People And Public Spaces http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/landuse/20040119/12/841 But the link, from the article to the Downtown Brooklyn Plan is great: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/dwnbklyn2/dwnbklynintro1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 While realtors see a big demand for prime office space now, it remains to be seen whether this amount of commercial space will be needed in the long run with the continuing trend of gradual movement to the suburbs This type of proposed zoning change and future development works to create an anchor, centralized node. Yes, the masses will always move towards the ever growing accepted outskirts. With the population growing, business looking for quality cost effective space, this area could become a secondary financial district. This will bring the upper end service industry in, creating higher paying jobs for the local population. At the same time, the renewal of Brooklyn can grow. Remodeling, renovation, rehab of the vernacular / brownstones, up dating and adding longevity to those wonderful and historic buildings. To do nothing but, creating parks and trying to squeeze in better shops & quality of life is dangerous. This is a large area and tax base for NYC. The potential for urban decay is great. The author of the first article needs to factor the $/sqft into his forecast. If a business can cut the cost of space in half, they will move. All over the US, it is happening every day, because it is cheaper in the suburbs, than downtown. Donald Trump makes max $$$s on his demand side economic properties but at the same time max $$$ moves many to areas with lesser costs. Why not leverage this behavior. Capture some of the exodus and grow the tax base for NYC rather than the surrounding cities, counties and states. Unfortunately, this puts a burden on the existing population. It is easy to crit the planners and developers for not caring about people. Nevertheless, really what will please them? Leave everything the way its, change it back to the way it was? A stagnant growth of an area is the kiss of the tax death or unfair burden unto other areas, usually business districts, to cover the infrastructure costs. Personally, the designers and planners need to work harder to make these spaces more human, no doubt. However, what are the solutions, how will the population actually use them? Are the additional costs going to gather sustained support from a disgruntled & or sentimental residents. Do the majority care or is it just a small group of vocal dissenters. Thats enough of that. Not trying to be negative or nasty, but so often this type of discussion is really mute. Without some creative and genuine insight into the dynamics of a new type of design solution, we go round and round and round and on and on. WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 what can be a lot worse than urban decay, is the urban regeneration which can happen too fast and too cheaply in cities like Dublin, which were allowed to fall to pieces down through the years, and are now been gutted and fitted out with 'consumer traps' right, left and centre. I used to like the term footfall - but in the Dublin context, it just means - how can we extract cash from people who use our streets, our city. There has to be a half way house somewhere. I could tell you all about urban changes - Dublin has been sort of home since early 90s and I have seen it all. I mean, once a single building site anywhere within a city of 1 million people would have attracted discussion and interest. However, now Calatrava comes over and builds a bridge, and most architects don't even give it a thought! Weird, weird, weird... like pop music... time will pick out the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 Funniest thing about Calatrava is that he makes models at the start of the design process - by a very skilled model maker. Then he says - okay - now I am going to design my project. He believes the section is a good way to understand his concepts, and seems to have mastered the freehand drawing of concepts in section. That is, he doesn't seem to think any other view than the section is really so necessary to capture the essence of his design. I have seen him drawing these sections too - they are generally huge - a big sheet of white paper stuck vertically on a huge wall area, and he sets about it like a painter would do - using the charcoal piece from his shoulder, he sweeps huge big archs etc - and miraculously the image emerges from a couple of lines - I don't think anyone else could do it as well - I don't think anyone could copy how he does it. He makes a lot of sculptures too and leaves them around his house, around the office and so on. He talks about seeing things at different scales - real scale, model scale, sculptures, drawings. We talk a lot here about computer visuals - I dunno, Calatrava works like an artist in many ways. And has all the arrogant, childish ideas that he tries to make into theories - and generally people just ignore that, and his God complex and enjoy what he does. But there is strategic urban significance attached to so many of his projects too: Thread here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hey, Just remembered seeing something about the chewing gum tax over there. Think you can factor in the gum shoe friction coefficient of pedestrian movement, later in the day of course, for your computer models? he, he, he..... City of one million, well county anyway. Sounds like Milwaukee, home of some of calatravas work too. I understand he is a really down to earth, grounded and humble man. I sense from some people who have had direct contact with him. I think that humility allows a designer to make contact with a very broad range of people. Granting an insight into what will make a design broadly accepted with in a community. Much like the addition to the art museum. A little childhood fantasy and whimsy of ships and maritime history may have helped also. That kind of sensibility is seemingly so in contrast with urban planning and maybe a couple of architects. I guess statistical, technical and the always needed economic matters take precident over how one feels transversing through spaces. I agree, time will tell like pop music. But does it matter who is considered the creater of the electric guitar, yet alone were he was from? I contemplate that one almost everyday driving down the Les Paul Highway. :winkgrin: WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 wda over at CGA, described Ireland as being 'like a Milwaukee'. Dunno what that means, but I intend to find out some time. It was'nt so much ireland as the city of Dublin I was refering to. Let me explain many of the similarities. Demographics, basically a blue collar core. Skilled tradesman, metal working, Milwuakee at one time was considered the machiune shop to the world, maritime history, ship building, although your is still present. Many irish immagrated to Milwaukee because of this and some of the geographic similairites. The Milwuakee RailRoad employed many, my grandfather and his 4 brothers included in this group. The corner pub & beer -not comparing one on one our lager vs your ale- being part of the culture. In the shadow of great ecenomic centers - Britian-London Milwuakee-Chicago. Yet ties to the land are very strong. Decay of the citys. Political turmiol, social and economic issues. Not to the scale and magnitude Of Ireland, however. In Milwaukee, 1972 the last major building was constructed, 40 stories. Nothing of any substance until the late nineties and still nothing comprable. A steady decline of high paying skilled jobs and mechanism has taken this once great manufacturing center and reduced to a third rate city. Harnishphager, Rexnord, The breweries, which Milwuakee is also famous for, have all but for names sake moved out. Harley Davidson is a success story. But it was will power of the employees and the brass parts of the Davidson decendants that kept it here and have made it work. But in the broad scope of things it's not a gigantic employer or manufactuer. Some of the engineering jobs have stayed due to the history and experience of the large manufactuers. Now it's more like a declining home office to the Midwest US. The urban decay has been prevelant, it was bad in the 70's. They build a mall downtown, it propspered sort of, for a decade. Alot of goofy fancy shops catering to the up scale. They all moved out of the city. Now many of them and a new breed of city dweller is moving into historic disctricts and rehabs. But these areas still lack the robust personality of thier pasts. Also displacing many of the poorer inhabitants to new areas of future decay. It's not thier fault, but it is an indication. Lets not forget about the social class issues. The handful of wealthy higher society people that backed Calatravas addition to the art museum had little or no public support. It was pretty much privately funded, with many cost over runs. Still to this day many people think it just does not belong here. But a 3 story acrylic scuplture of a BLUE COLLAR SHIRT should hang from the Airports parking structure. What a way to attrack business. Sounds good, but the labor costs of the Union strangle hold on the blue collar work force, repells new business. The City Council cancelled the contract when it could not be delivered on time, lawsuites are in progess. Brian any of this have a familarity or resonate to Dublin? This compares much of the negative similarities. But the passion and quality of people is very similar to the cities of our individual ethnic heritage. We Americans generally do have strong and emotional ethnic ties to our Countries of origin. For me lets say I love my drink and think highly of the Pope. PC statement to follow.... referencing his county of origin, for this forum anyway. WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 THing about Dublin, is which Dublin are you talking about? I mean, the younger people nowadays don't think of Ireland or Dublin as people of 30+ do. This whole 'global' thing came in in the late nineties, and every young person ever since, has thought of themselves more as Europeans, or cosmopolitan etc - than strictly Dublin or Irish. There has been a fierce backlash against anything 'Irish' - and most people now work for foreign companies - and adopt the attitude and senses of that company. When Ford came to Cork in the early part of the century to corner the growing European Market for cars, it changed that city totally - there were people known as 'a Ford man' in Cork. Limerick is similar now, where you have 'a Dell man'. Dublin has lots and lots of large foreign companies now, and you will either adopt the 'value system and outlook' of your employer, regardless of how 'odd' that might seem in the context of an ancient place like Ireland/Dublin/Cork/Limerick/Galway... or face the consequences of 'not being with the program'. I guess Ireland has traded up, and lost a lot in the process, in the past couple of years. Which isn't a good thing - but people were so fed up of the kind of deriliction and 'pleasing decay' for so many years here in Ireland, that they have 'back-lashed' totally against all their old values. I am sure Milwaukee will go the same way, and lose a lot of its identity too, in the process. I mean, I come from Limerick, was working in Dell in Limerick and fired, "because i didn't respect the Dell ethos" - that is a quote from a 40 something year old IRISH women in the HR department. She could have left it at just firing me, but she had to stick the boot in too, just to please her own image of herself as some kind of daft imatation Texan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Alexander Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Should be interesting this growing globalism emerging from cosmopolitian thinking. History is full of ism/s and groups of people wanting more from living through variuos forms of decay. Usaully made to look appealing by those who are cosmopolitian elite. Europe is full of the results. Hopefully this new thinking will not produce just a new economic power with political leaders that ruthlessly vie for power of the greater union. But produce an example of regions that apply thier resources to produce what they do best, with pride, dedication, and a unique regional identity. Not just grabbing cheap labor from a depressed region. That's ideal thinking, human nature tends to make me think..... Where does a global thinking leave the Architecture. Are we headed for a global style, kind of like the strip malls here in the US. Cookie cutter variations of the same platonic forms, with the same name brand stores, through out the world. Cool I could go to a Home depot store in Russia and know where the hammers are!!! orangeno Globalazation is everywhere. A regional lumber company here in the Midwest was bought out by Carolina Holdings, national building supply conglomerate, I think. Making it a target for aqusition by one of the largest plumbing manufactuers and building suppliers in the UK and Europe. My only problem is the company colors changed from red, black and white to deep forest green and white. The hats, logos and delivery trucks look like crap and don't stand out anymore. Indication of things to come? Was that HR lady short too? Those short Texans tend to be compelled to prove things, they never had to. But you look at texas, maybe they are all over achievers? hehehe, no offense intended. But do they have kippers in texas... WDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 I think, they must be something alright wda. What that is, I am not even sure. But they are definitely something. About the height of my belly button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 The second great migration was an internal one: Millions of young, energetic and talented Americans from traditional industrial centers, small towns, and rural areas, packed up their Hondas and moved to more-thriving metro areas--generally the same ones that the immigrants came to. These native-born migrants helped to design and then feed the emerging creative industries that during the 1990s would come to define the age. Creative class. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0401.florida.html [ February 03, 2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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