Displacement along a loft

[Tommy L]

Hello guys,

Looking for a little help.

I have a loft which has a material on it. I would like to apply a vray displacement to the loft. However, the loft has a sub-object material and several components. In the image attached, you can see a road. The path, kerbstones and road are all one loft. How do I apply a displacement map to each component and control the mapping? the loft doesnt have a UVW map....?

 

I tried just putting a displacement map in the material slot but it doesnt render (just hangs). Im not familiar with using displacement within a material. I always use the modifier.

[RyanSpaulding]

Are you using max? I thought the new 2009 Max had a loft UVW mapping option...

[Tommy L]

Are you using max? I thought the new 2009 Max had a loft UVW mapping option...

 

Ah, well Im still in Max 2008...

[SandmanNinja]

Wow - nice road!

 

Just a wild-ass guess here, but if I break it down I get:

Loft = shape + path

If the shape is 'too much', just add a break to the shape spline, detach it so it's a unique shape spline, use the same PATH for each of the new loft splines, and then apply the material as you see fit.

 

Just a guess. I've tried the demo of Max 2009 and it made my head hurt.

[Tommy L]

Thanks Ninja,

Ive got a few workarounds for this, but I was just wondering if it was possible without deconstructing the loft. I use lofts alot and I also use displacement alot. It would be good if these two tools worked in a seamless manner.

[blowback]

just a thought...

 

can't you apply edit mesh pick the poly's add uvw and displace to the seperate polys. Still keeping the original loft unbroken.

[BrianKitts]

how exactly are you controlling the materials along your loft? Are you assigning material ID's to the segments in the shape that you are sweeping, or are you doing a single map?

 

I do it both ways, but if I was trying to throw displacement into the mix, I would use a single map and just some crafty mapping creation control and throwing the displacement modifier on the stack on top of the loft.

 

(pardon the low res textures, if I was actually doing this for a project not a quick toss together I might have actually paid attention to the sizes I was using....but the concept is there)

 

I keep a curb swept with proper mapping that I use in all projects, I may go the extra step and put the whole package together after seeing this result, could be nice to have an adjustable road to sweep through projects.....

Edited June 12, 2008 by BrianKitts

[blowback]

Brian,

 

do I have this right. ( I think that looks pretty goo )

 

the whole thing is a sweep

the matls are applied to the spline ID,

then you map and displace over top?

 

I probaly have this wrong......

[Tommy L]

how exactly are you controlling the materials along your loft? Are you assigning material ID's to the segments in the shape that you are sweeping, or are you doing a single map?

 

I do it both ways, but if I was trying to through displacement into the mix, I would use a single map and just some crafty mapping creation control and throwing the displacement modifier on the stack on top of the loft.

 

(pardon the low res textures, if I was actually doing this for a project not a quick toss together I might have actually paid attention to the sizes I was using....but the concept is there)

 

I keep a curb swept with proper mapping that I use in all projects, I may go the extra step and put the whole package together after seeing this result, could be nice to have an adjustable road to sweep through projects.....

 

Brian,

 

Thanks for going to all that trouble in your answer!

 

Your first assumption is correct. Road, kerbstones and sidewalks are all elements of one profile which forms the loft. I use the element ID's to define which material (sub-object) goes on which part of the loft. The mapping is controlled in the loft parameters and the offsets etc in the diffuse channel.

The problem I have could be solved if the displace channel in the material operated in the render engine in exactly the same way as the vraydisplacement modifier. I assumed the displacement panel (in the vray render panel) would control the displacement applied in the material channel, but it would appear (from my limited testing) that this is not the case.

 

So if anyone could give a quick idiots guide to the material displacement channel and vray..?

 

By the way, I really recommend my way of constructing road assemblies as lofts. It is super controllable and very quick. I have 2 profiles, one that you see in the rendering and one which is a drop kerb. They work great together. Gets tricky at intersections though.

 

Tom.

[whitetr]

iIf you are using the VRayDisplacementMod, you'll either need to break apart the the shape or use a single map (no MSO). Brian's example is using a single map that covers the sidewalk, curb and road.

[Chad Warner]

 

I do it both ways, but if I was trying to through displacement into the mix, I would use a single map and just some crafty mapping creation control and throwing the displacement modifier on the stack on top of the loft.

 

I think the problem we're having here is how do you get the displacement map to work as a modifier when there's no "uvw map" modifier applied to the sweep?

[Tommy L]

I think the problem we're having here is how do you get the displacement map to work as a modifier when there's no "uvw map" modifier applied to the sweep?

 

Thanks, thats exactly the point. Except its not a sweep, its a loft object which generates mapping.

I am guessing that there are 2 solutions which are possible (but beyond my skill level).

1: the displacement channel in the material is used to apply vraydisplacement.

2: the mapping co-ordinates for the map driving the vray displacement is somehow extracted from the loft command and re-applied as a UVW.

 

Any max mechanics out there who understand Max 'under the hood' who could shed some light on this?

 

Some one mentioned this is addressed in Max 2009, any takers?

 

Thanks again,.

Tom.

[Ian P]

I would use a normal map instead they stand up as well as disp in most situations and are less hassle as they can be used just like bumps.

[RobNJ73]

Couldn't you just apply a UV map, assign it and the displacement modifier to map channel 2 so it doesn't interfere with the textures?

[Chad Warner]

The point is to try to get the textures and the displacement maps line up, and when using a loft or a sweep, all of the UVW mapping is done within the loft modifier, so there's no channel 1 or 2 to tell the disp modifier to use.

[Tommy L]

I would use a normal map instead they stand up as well as disp in most situations and are less hassle as they can be used just like bumps.

 

Ian,

I have never used normal maps and Im only slightly informed as to how they work. Any chance you could give a brief description?

Thanks,

Tom.

[Ian P]

We have been doing it the easy way with a great little Prog called Crazy Bump it was free beta version when we were using it but think you may have to buy it now?

(no advertising intended but i am unaware of a simpler way)

 

it will make a normal map out of any Grey scale map i.e your bump or disp map, very basically (as i know how to use them but not really how they work) a normal map is like a bump but instead of black and white it has 4 colours i believe which represent the direction of light not just up or down but left right etc so it renders almost as if the mesh is diplaced in some cases especially fine detail i have found it renders nicer than disp.

 

you just stick a normal bump modifier into your bump slot then put your normal map into that.

[blowback]

http://evermotion.org/index.php?unfold_exclusive=158&unfold=exclusive

 

 

don't know if you have seen this but...

 

This gives you a nice heads up

[blowback]

thx Ian

[BrianKitts]

I would use a normal map instead they stand up as well as disp in most situations and are less hassle as they can be used just like bumps.

 

excellent point. I've been trying to use more normal mapping lately, didn't even think of suggesting it.

 

check this rocking little freebie out.... http://www.crazybump.com/

[Tommy L]

Many thanks guys, this has been a really helpful thread. Ill post the results when its finished. Now Im off to try out normal mapping.....

[Chad Warner]

So anyone have an answer to the original question?

 

Crazy bump does rock BTW.

[Tommy L]

So anyone have an answer to the original question?

 

Crazy bump does rock BTW.

 

Looks like just workarounds. I was hoping for a Max 2009 person to come along and tell us its all solved in Max 2009.

[RobNJ73]

Thanks for the link to CrazyBump, Brian. Great googily moogily, that's a fantastic little tool.