architct or cad monkey??

[realeric]

hello all,

i dont know if this is the right place to discuss this, but considering there are lot of architects (i guess..) doing cg work here, it will be interesting to hear some of your opinions..

im now a student of architecture and in my studio at my college, the design workflow still done in conventional way...just few of us using CAD and 3d tools like max vray,etc as DESIGNING TOOL, not drafting tool..i'm one of them..and it's painful in ass to work in this way among the other "primitive"...especially when you realize that you only get the same even less appreciation compare to students who only do design on paper,pen and pencil...

so, i'm thinking back now..is it right to use CAD and 3d imaging to design, or it just remain a tool and we are the monkey??

please give me some oppinions,esp from the moderator, Mr.Jeff, i really appreciate for what you have done to cg arch field and to this forum esp..

 

regards

Edited June 13, 2008 by realeric
wrong spelled

[mbowers]

Your post raises some important issues that we architects/designers/artists/pencil-pushers/cadmonkeys/firemen/babysitters/human resource management technicians/politicians/salesmen deal with on a daily basis. Simply put, we are a profession of many things. The thing i love most about our creative field is that we get to do a little bit of everything. I don't think your comment about being a cad monkey is very clear. Design is one thing, using a tool such as a computer is just that...a tool. A creative mind does not require technology, it's really in your brain.

 

If your speaking about getting a degree in architecture, and getting your license to practice and upon reaching that goal and all you are to the firm is a CAD monkey, then that is a difference scenario. At my firm the principals, project managers, project architects, and graduate architects get to design. We also get to generate our own documents and details along with those designs. Some firms have the 1950's traditional work ethic of being the boss, scratching an irrecomprehensible design on bumwad and then tossing it to a cadmonkey or technician to sweat about how to make it work. More and more, i'm seeing that the architect, designer or whomever is in charge of the project gets to see it from day of contract to opening day. Firms like a person who can do a wide range of things, such as those i mentioned above. Now, for your term "cadmonkey." It is true that our profession has relied heavily on the computer and it's power, and it is also true that a lot of young designers/architect get their foot in the door by picking up redlines and drawing things that may seem boring and mundane, but that's part of the learning process.

 

More over, with the strong current of BIM software..Revit, Archicad, Digital Project, the specific title roles of Project Manager, Project Architect, Architect, Designer, Interior Designer, Spec writer, Construction Manager are slowly blending into one another. You really have to become all three. Your knowledge of these systems will make you very valuable person in your fiem. Perhaps i've answered some of your questions. Maybe i've forced you to ask even more questions. Your experience will pay off. Hang in the there. HTH.

[Antisthenes]

not that i use a pencil but i use a stylus and a tabletpc to start designs at times. or digitize other peoples.

but i also use the Rhino Sketch command not just sketchbook or artrage and most designs are given to me to imitate/follow allot of the time, site adapt work.

 

my own designs i do completely on the computer i just find it more flexible towards change and accuracy.

The people who don't use the computer will eventually be approaching those that do to get them to redo that work in a way that is sharp/constructible.

 

then again i don't have a traditional school background, so i suppose if the customer/student wants to do things the way their old school teacher values, that makes sense or at least seems like what may be part of what you are describing?

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

I still stand strongly by my opinion that when you first learn design you need to steer clear of the digital world. You need to learn to see things with your brain, and see things with your hands. The digital world will come in time, but you need to learn the fundamentals now. Don't assume that you already now the fundamentals, and that others are simply working in a primitive way because they are not using the same tools as you.

[jackb602]

I still stand strongly by my opinion that when you first learn design you need to steer clear of the digital world. You need to learn to see things with your brain, and see things with your hands. The digital world will come in time, but you need to learn the fundamentals now. Don't assume that you already now the fundamentals, and that others are simply working in a primitive way because they are not using the same tools as you.

 

I totally agree. In fact, it's precisely the "primitive" nature of a 6B pencil and a roll of trace that makes it such a valuable design tool. The tool itself becomes invisible and therefore lets you generate ideas very directly and quickly. There is also great value in building physical models. Buildings are inevitably physical, and there's no better way than a model to think about how things are put together.

 

Any software package, no matter how "intuitive" the interface, can be a huge obstacle to developing ideas. You are forced to think in the very specific language of the software.

 

I'm also reminded of a conversation I had with my brilliant and blunt professor in architecture school:

 

me: Can I do the next assignment on the computer?

prof.: Why would you want to do that?

me: So I can see things better in three dimensions.

prof.: If you need a computer to see things in three dimensions you're in the wrong profession!

[litleboy]

Same old problem.. learn to use the tools and use them all. if only use one you will lack on some advantages the other tools offer..

too much hand craft, you will end out of scale. too much computer you can slow down your creative process block your mind.

 

prof.: If you need a computer to see things in three dimensions you're in the

wrong profession!

 

I don't agree, that will be ideal, but you can learn to perceive the space with the help of those tools.. pencil, paper, computer..

 

Before I studed architecture I saw the silicon graphic logo as a symbol, now I cant see other thing than a cube.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

too much hand craft, you will end out of scale.

 

Part of the problem with working on the computer is that you tend to focus on smaller details of scale, that don't need to be addressed. I actually prefer a chipboard working model that is kept in a surrounding site context to make sure that you are working at a scale that is desirable for the location.

[Sawyer]

Hmm I kind of agree with Travis and yet I don't. One of the things I don't like about drafting is that is teaches drawing when you are really building. I loved learning the table and I have never seen anything better that using a pencil and paper to communicate ideas but what I found is that there was this whole in between step to communicating and that was drafting. I think of something that is 3d in nature I draw it in 2d and then I imagine it in 3d.And drafting is really just symbols that you have to learn to read it has nothing to do with the actual language of buildings which is building.

 

I do agree that the software is a barrier but I think drafting is as well. Drafting is short hand for something else. But drafting (table) is also so much more immediate, easy and not owned by ADSK (not yet). Actually this just makes me want to go to my table and draw.

[litleboy]

there is no perfect method. and totally agree with Sawyer. we draw in 2d because that is our human capability and a tool we are using since we where born.

 

probably the question is what not to do. find what is blocking your design process.

 

I use both, I draw a couple of lines on cad then print and do some traces by hand, than to CAD and so on..

[illegalalieninbeijing]

One word: Versatility. In our profession, these are just tools to convey or communicate your ideas. The ability to create and DESIGN is an individual's natural in-born talent.

 

Not all architectural design firms have the same medium / platform in producing design. A good number of them would be somewhat traditionalist in the design process and another portion of them are into the latest cutting edge technology. But somethings never change regardless the evolution of computers into the design process: Sketching by pencil is still the quickest way to generate ideas and communicate your design intent.

 

Learn and try to master all of them. Learn to draw by hand. Besides the humility it teaches us, it demonstrate your artistry as well which is very important in studying architecture. Believe me, you see things differently in a 3D/CAD program if you master drawing by hand at first. If you think your school is not teaching you enough drawing by hand or by computers, practice on your own. You wouldn't know how to use a brush effect in photoshop if you haven't used a brush to create art in real life.

 

Be patient and always listen to your teacher.

Edited June 13, 2008 by illegalalieninbeijing

[realeric]

thanx for the responses..

the term "cad monkey" here is when someone see your work, they tend to perceive it as vizualisation products..not truly a design..they will assume it looked good because it's max and vray....an it really happened here...

 

i do agree that sketches are needed in design process,it's the natural way to connect the idea from brain to hand...but i do not agree that digital way is only a "tool"..through 3d we doimodel study and simulate our design better.can we sketch the entire building from outside to inside as precise as computer do? yes, if you have a really good sketching skill..but unfortunately,young designers nowadays are lack of this ability,and it will be a very wasting time workflow.

so i think digital sofwares should not be threated as drafting tool.but design tool instead...usually there will be difference opinions between the old and young...cause we design through different workflow..

 

regard