Night sky in FRY - NOT POSSIBLE?

[isagreg]

When I was playing with FRY 1.8 DEMO I remember it was able to render very nice night skies. And it was automatic, all you had to do is set the time of the day to evening hours. And you had beautiful dark blue sky...

 

Yesterday I was playing with new DEMO, RC. The night sky is gone. I was trying really hard to get that "blue" night... But I couldn"t...

 

I'm just wondering, was I doing something wrong or that feature is really not there anymore?

 

P.S. I even remember seeing skies with stars...

[Fran]

Hi Isa,

 

The night sky feature has been removed until further notice. You can get better results with a good-quality hdri and with Importance Sampling enabled in the Environment settings.

 

Hope that helps.

[isagreg]

Thanks for reply.

Too bad, that was a really nice feature. And FRY was the only engine that could do night skies...

[RyanSpaulding]

What a stupid thing to do...take away a feature that seemed to be working well and was unique to the program? Any ideas why?

[F J]

What a stupid thing to do...take away a feature that seemed to be working well and was unique to the program? Any ideas why?

 

hmmm, to compell the trial users to buy it?

 

(unless i misunderstood it being locked on the trial for actually removed :X)

Edited June 26, 2008 by F J
hmmm

[isagreg]

It's removed both from trial and full versions.

[own1221]

is fryrender that easy to use?! just click night sky and it'll render a night scene? I've been using vray should i switch?

[IceAged]

is fryrender that easy to use?! just click night sky and it'll render a night scene? I've been using vray should i switch?

 

Yes - as 'easy' as going outside and taking a photo of the night sky with a real camera. The end product however will not look very impressive unless you invest the time into understanding how the camera works under those sort of conditions.

Being a sort-of 'simulated camera', Fry will produce drab looking images if you simply 'point and shoot' - just as a high end camera in real-life will not necessarily give you stunning photos using the default settings.

[own1221]

Yes - as 'easy' as going outside and taking a photo of the night sky with a real camera. The end product however will not look very impressive unless you invest the time into understanding how the camera works under those sort of conditions.

 

Being a sort-of 'simulated camera', Fry will produce drab looking images if you simply 'point and shoot' - just as a high end camera in real-life will not necessarily give you stunning photos using the default settings.

 

So with FRY do you still have complicated render settings like in Vray? choosing the subdivision amounts, noise thresholds etc? and how is the light controlled, is there a selection of omnis and suns that you input?

 

Going outside and taking a photo of a building i modellled in max sounds really easy, and realistic - since its a photo - even if it were to look flat or dull, photoshop could be used aswell to touch it up...?

[Fran]

So with FRY do you still have complicated render settings like in Vray? choosing the subdivision amounts, noise thresholds etc? and how is the light controlled, is there a selection of omnis and suns that you input?

 

The render settings in fryrender do not pertain to the global illumination simulation per se. They have to do with camera settings, the way you set up your lights in the scene, your materials settings, and the geometry of your scene (in other words, the essential things that make up a scene). However, there are no "GI Settings".

 

In Vray, the settings you mention control the quality of your GI and the user will balance that against render time and the quality of the final output they require. In fryrender and other unbiased renderers, the longer you let the image render, the higher the quality and you can stop it at any time.

 

Fryrender has a physical sky and sun system that you can set in any way you like. It also has simple environment lighting that will accept a color or hdri input. You create lights by applying an emitter material to geometry.

[own1221]

"In fryrender and other unbiased renderers, the longer you let the image render, the higher the quality and you can stop it at any time."

 

so you would specify a certain image size e.g. 640x480 pixels and it will start rendering until you tell it to stop?

 

This software sounds very interesting, what is the render time compared to a vray rendertime, just a very rough estimate would it take alot longer or about the same? and is it a plugin that runs inside max or do you export a mesh and open it up in FRY and finally what size is the installation file?

[Fran]

so you would specify a certain image size e.g. 640x480 pixels and it will start rendering until you tell it to stop?

 

Yes. Alternatively, you can set a time limit or limit the render by the number of passes completed. With each pass, the image is refined a certain amount and the more passes, the less noisey the image.

 

This software sounds very interesting, what is the render time compared to a vray rendertime, just a very rough estimate would it take alot longer or about the same? and is it a plugin that runs inside max or do you export a mesh and open it up in FRY and finally what size is the installation file?

 

Unless you have inefficient GI or material settings in Vray, render times will generally be less than with fryrender. Scenes like product shots and exterior viz will render faster than interior scenes though, so it depends on the work you do. An advantage to the way that fryrender renders the image is that the entire image is output to the frame buffer at once, gradually becoming clearer and actually giving you distinguishable results very quickly. So you have the opportunity to inspect all portions of the image and determine fairly quickly if you have made an error that needs to be corrected.

 

Also Tonemapping, Post, and Lens effects are controlled interactively from the fryrender console and can be tweaked in real time as your image is rendering or once you've stopped the render. And if you stop prematurely, you can always resume it. In addition to that, if you set your scene lights to different layers via Fryrender object properties, you have the ability to turn them on, off, adjust intensity, rgb color, and temperature. This includes the ability to separate the sun and sky on separate layers and control them independently.

 

Fryrender itself is a standalone executable that is linked to a host application via plugin. There are plugins for 3ds Max, XSI, Maya, C4d, Lightwave, Rhino and Sketchup. In your host application, you create your scenes, set up your cameras, lights and materials, and render. Once you hit render, the host application exports the scene and calls fryrender. Then your host application is free for you to work in. For information on pricing and licensing details, or to download the demo, you can go to the fryrender web site.

 

I use fryrender for all of my production work, unless a studio requires me to use Vray for the sake of compatability.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Fran
additional info and added Lightwave

[own1221]

Thanks Fran you have been very helpful in helping me understand Fryrender, I'm definetly going to try it soon, maybe after I get a new computer - I'm running a AMD 3200 at the moment (not even one core ).

 

One last question, when I'm setting up the cameras, lights and materials in max is FRY render's set of cameras, lights and materials, and if so how sophisticated are the settings for these esp for the materials is it alot more complicated?

[Fran]

Thanks Fran you have been very helpful in helping me understand Fryrender, I'm definetly going to try it soon, maybe after I get a new computer - I'm running a AMD 3200 at the moment (not even one core ).

 

One last question, when I'm setting up the cameras, lights and materials in max is FRY render's set of cameras, lights and materials, and if so how sophisticated are the settings for these esp for the materials is it alot more complicated?

 

You would definately want a faster computer with more ram and preferably (though not required) 64-bit Windows, in which case, go for at least 4 GB ram. It makes life a lot easier.

 

You set up fry cameras the same way you would native ones, but the parameter controls are proprietary fryrender ones. Fry will use a native camera, but not it's native parameters, and you cannot apply fryrender camera parameters to it within the host app. It will carry default fryrender camera settings.

 

You apply emitter materials to objects that represent your lights in the scene (a plane, a sphere, etc.).

 

Fryrender materials are proprietary and you apply them to objects within Max. You access and apply them via the Max Material Editor, but you set the material type from the Material/Map browser to FRY Material. When you edit the material, you are taken to the proprietary fry material editor. As to whether the materials are complicated, I've been using them for so long that I can't give an objective opinion on that. They are different. You'll just have to see for yourself.

[RyanSpaulding]

Hey Fran,

 

What is it you like about Fryrender better than VRay? I must admit, you put out amazing work in Fryrender.

[Fran]

Hi Ryan,

 

When I work as a consultant to a studio who requires that I use Vray, I prefer Vray.

 

There are several things that discourage me about Vray. These things pertain only to me and my experience with Vray, and have nothing to do with the experience or output of anyone else in the Vray community. Nor are these things sited as intended to imply or convince anyone that fryrender is a better product than Vray. But the stumbling points for me are: a myriad of GI settings, AA choices, Color Mapping choices, reliance on LWF, loss of detail and secondary shadow fidelity. With the latest release, there are even more render settings. I can't keep up. Plus, the settings are, for the most part, scene and output size specific. So they change. While I'm thinking of it, if you apply a Vray light material to an object, you have to have extremely high settings to avoid GI artifacts.

 

With fryrender, I don't concern myself with LWF because it works in linear space already. I choose an AA setting based on the size of the output (Detailed for images less than 1000 x n pixels, Default for anything larger, or you can disable it for fast previews). DOF is automatic and dependent on the fstop of your camera and while that is not interactive, nearly every other aspect of the image output is (as I've described in the post above).

 

An important personal preference of mine is to have a render engine that does not sit on top of my host application while it's rendering. Sure, you can use Backburner to send out renders, and I've used it successfully before, but I don't like the workflow. If I need to do large format output, I send it over the network via the fryrender console. I can even send it to a renderfarm straight from the console.

 

Speed of course, is an issue for many. Back when I used radiosity, people were dumbfounded that I would wait 11 hours for a solution - but I could render view after view at high-res in 10 minutes. People also considered GI to be a cheat - something a knowledgable person should be able to do with standard key lighting schemes and adept use of amibient. GI was also considered by one of the most admired people in this business to be not feasible for production work. As hardware evolves and when a Vray render takes 1 minute to render while the fry one takes 60, I'll still choose fryrender for my production. I've seen some of the most astonishing work in architectural viz done by artists using Vray, and I take nothing away from them by saying that I prefer to use fryrender.

 

So, that's the short answer. Do you want the long one?

Edited July 11, 2008 by Fran
spellign tysop

[RyanSpaulding]

Haha. Is it sick if I say 'yes'?

 

Good info though. I've always been intrigued by Fryrender. Seems like it's what Maxwell was originally striving to be...with a better dev team behind it. We use VRay here at the office. It'd definitely be fun to play with.

[Fran]

Haha. Is it sick if I say 'yes'?

 

Pretty much.

[leclercq_d]

How do you setup the camera so i get the wright angel. i mean normaly in vray you got vertical corretion or in max a camera modifier. But with fryrender i can't get it wright.

 

can somone give me some tips

 

greets

[RobNJ73]

Same question, third thread I've seen it in.

 

How do you setup the camera so i get the wright angel. i mean normaly in vray you got vertical corretion or in max a camera modifier. But with fryrender i can't get it wright.

 

can somone give me some tips

 

greets