Matt Sugden Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I currently have an issue with a non-paying client, who I believe after doing some background checks has County Court Judgments made against him. So understandably I am worried about not getting paid. I've been through the usual process of un-returned phone calls and emails and now I have taken a new tact. My images are currently being used by his 3rd party estate agent and so I have approached them and told them that as I hold copyright over the images that they are no longer allowed to use them or distribute them without my written authorization, which I will not give them until I get paid, as they have never officially had permission to use them from me. Has anyone on this board used this method to try and force a client to pay, essentially restricting the copyright of the images until they cough up the cash? I'd be interested to hear your experiences if you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I've never had to go that far but it might put some pressure on your client to pay up. Did you have a contract with him, if you did then you might be able to take him to small claims court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sindala Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 You could also see if you can bend his ego into paying. I had a simmilar client a while back. wrote e-mails send reminders and called every week. After a while I wrote a letter stating that i understand that he can not pay me so i offered to make a 10 payments contract to make it easier for him. That insulted him so much that he phoned me to tell me our bill was only very small and that we are a small compagny and he was an important developer bla bla bla. Got payed that same day. Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I have a funnier one. A client didn't pay in six months, one of his colleagues gave me his home phone number, I called his wife and told on him, got my check within a week. Tell his wife or mom, it never fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 once i had an architect who called me for some pics. i made them and he won a gigantic competition here in Paris. he neverpaid me. i called him again and again and even moved to his agency, he was like a little baby crying "i have no money" (obviously big lies). i decided to forget about this as i had many projects and no real money emergency. two years passed i meet him in the street and we talk as if nothing happened (even if i was only thinking to my money). then he asks me for some pics (badass audacious guy). i instantly say yes !.BUT I ASK HIM TO PAY ME BEFORE I MAKE THE PICS. he pays. i never worked on the pics. he missed the competition appliance cause he had no pics to show. i took the money and ran to my bank. SHAME ON ME. you should forget about your money. just turn the page and never work again with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
own1221 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 once i had an architect who called me for some pics. i made them and he won a gigantic competition here in Paris. Its not Jean Nouvel is it:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky Lane Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I send my lads 'round to pick up my cheque if someones being unhelpful. Its surprising how quickly they hand over the cheque when a half dozen guys in biker leathers sit in their foyer waiting to pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I currently have an issue with a non-paying client, who I believe after doing some background checks has County Court Judgments made against him. So understandably I am worried about not getting paid. I've been through the usual process of un-returned phone calls and emails and now I have taken a new tact. My images are currently being used by his 3rd party estate agent and so I have approached them and told them that as I hold copyright over the images that they are no longer allowed to use them or distribute them without my written authorization, which I will not give them until I get paid, as they have never officially had permission to use them from me. Has anyone on this board used this method to try and force a client to pay, essentially restricting the copyright of the images until they cough up the cash? I'd be interested to hear your experiences if you have. Write him a letter via post telling him he is not allowed to use your images until paid (tell him why) and say he has 7 days to pay in full before you put the matter in the hands of your solicitor. This often works, but may have to go to the next stage which is paying a solicitor to write to him saying ' i've been appointed by my client Mr Matthew Sugden......blah blah...... you have 7 days to pay before we take action....you'll be liable to pay the amount owed plus interest, plus professional fees' etc. This usually does it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Sugden Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 Ha ha!! awesome idea about calling his wife..... I know that if mine got wind of the fact that I wasn't paying someone I'd never hear the end of it. Unfortunately I don't have her number, if he has one. Anyway, I have had to put a lot pressure on the estate agent, and they have very reluctantly removed the images from the sales literature, so I may have burnt some bridges there, and I've also taken the payment issue to the small claims court, so one way or another I should get it eventually, but it is a major pain in the arse. It's highly irritating that some people are so dishonest, and more irritating that I put in maximum effort with new clients to try and get repeat work, obviously no chance of that happening now that I'm trying to take him to the cleaners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky Lane Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Welcome to business man. Next time, get 50% up front, 50% on completion of the brief - and stipulate that you own copyright to all images until the invoice is paid in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Sugden Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 Well to be fair, I always do get 30% deposit up front. And I do stipulate that I own full copyright of the images in my contract. I think the issue is more to do with the guy being a bit of git and just ignoring all contractual obligations! Though I may make more of an issue about not granting copyright until I get payment, when i deliver images in the future to new clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billabong Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I have seen this happen a lot lately in the archi area of 3D. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the other areas, but it does seem to happen quite a lot in this area. I have friend that did work for a respectable archi company in NY and they have yet to pay him and its been over a year. I don't understand why these people want to be such crooks, Well I do see why why, thier cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 It might be a good idea to do background checks on new clients. Especially now that some economies are getting pretty bad. By the way, we did some metrics on our collections recently and found that most of our delinquent clients are the small companies. Reputable large firms generally don't stiff us. They just take long to pay... Also, as a rule of thumb, you should have large watermarks on all renderings until final payment is received. Especially with small first-time clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneis Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Also, as a rule of thumb, you should have large watermarks on all renderings until final payment is received. Especially with small first-time clients. Excellent advice, Eddie. I suppose also, considering the orphaned works fiasco, it may also save you some hassles down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leed Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I Also, as a rule of thumb, you should have large watermarks on all renderings until final payment is received. Especially with small first-time clients. That would not work for us... Working to tight deadlines were things are going to press you need to adopt a 'part of the team' attitude....and on the first job for a new client you can not afford to be aggressive with this type of thing... there is an element of trust given here... you can not go and say.... "I will remove the water mark when I get full payment". as you hand over the job... that is just going to alienate the client right away... I think... that you should get to know who signs the cheque and who is the account manager for the firm, who signs off the work, when it was signed off and when the account has been passed to payment... what the terms are for payment in the company you are working for. All this info is available if you ask.... just be polite but firm when chasing payment... follow a procedure... phone calls... emails... letters... If you know how the firm works with regards payment then you know what you are dealing with, and WHO to talk to....you will get a lot further I have found... Also you get to meet a lot more people, as a networking thing... I am not saying this works on all accounts though... I had a client recently who dropped me in it by stipulating on completion of the job that.... " you will not get payed until we get payed", this was back in January.... After 3 months I had to force the thing through, by threatening a solicitors letter and I got payed the next day... No more work from the firm, but small companies need cash flow.. so you take the hit... I know for a fact that the firm still has not been payed.... So I would still be waiting for the money.... .... It was hard to make that decision but necessary ... My little bit anyway Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 That would not work for us... Working to tight deadlines were things are going to press you need to adopt a 'part of the team' attitude....and on the first job for a new client you can not afford to be aggressive with this type of thing... there is an element of trust given here... you can not go and say.... "I will remove the water mark when I get full payment". as you hand over the job... that is just going to alienate the client right away... I agree. We sometimes break this rule to not alienate clients that we feel we can trust. But, the more you do in the beginning to make things clear with the client about how you want to handle the relationship the easier it will be to complete the project properly and get paid promptly. Your payment terms need to be clarified in multiple areas of the contract. You need to state the terms verbally at the beginning of the project and you must remind them prior to delivery. If they cannot send payment by delivery date then all they need to do is fax a copy of the check to you or simply sign a promissory note. The point is that you need to keep as much leverage as possible. Otherwise, once you deliver the final renderings then you will be completely at the mercy of the client. The client will know it. The bad ones will then take advantage of you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leed Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 But, the more you do in the beginning to make things clear with the client about how you want to handle the relationship the easier it will be to complete the project properly and get paid promptly. Yes I agree.. though probably I have not had the same experiences as you judging by your concerns... and comments... Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Yes I agree.. though probably I have not had the same experiences as you judging by your concerns... and comments... We do all kinds of projects and have many different types of clients. I would just use different approaches to billing/collections depending on who they are. As I said before, you can be patient with the big clients because they all eventually pay. The small ones can be risky so I would be a little more cautious. Anyways, there is no way of guaranteeing that all clients will always pay all of the invoices. So your fees should account or buffer for some losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markf Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I did some work for an architect and his client. I had done several other projects for them in the past. We had a good working relationship. They called on about New years day and asked to get a rendering done in like 4 days over the holiday. No time for getting my usual 50% up front and a signed Agreement for Service. 6 months later, still not paid. I called the architect at home and spoke to his wife. I didn't even discuss anything with her, just left a message asking that he call me back. Got paid later that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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