ILLEGAL solicitation for your V-Ray Dongle

[Sawyer]

I'm not upset I am just saying what can be done will be done

 

 

Thats pretty dismissive and seems to be condoning stealing. I know a lot of hackers and they all have this way of convincing themselves that what they are doing is justified.

 

Jonas can you indulge me for a moment in an analogy?

 

Lets say I was making chairs in my shop with my hands. Would it be ok it someone came up to me and talked about taking these chairs without paying because they are needed or wanted? I really don't think so. How is it different? Or is it different if its not me doing the building but a giant mega company?

 

I think a lot of what you are talking about is being really repelled by large corporations.

And I do relate to that. But stealing is stealing I have yet to really see it justified.

[Jeff Mottle]

I'm not upset I am just saying what can be done will be done

 

Which is EXACTLY why DRM, licensing, copy protection etc exist. If people just respected IP none of this would be required. I'd also hazard a guess that part of the price (which puts it further out of reach of some people), is directly attributed to having to create and maintain these protection mechanisms.

[Antisthenes]

seems to be condoning stealing.

 

indulge me for a moment in an analogy?

 

Lets say I was making chairs in my shop with my hands. Would it be ok it someone came up to me and talked about taking these chairs without paying because they are needed or wanted? I really don't think so. How is it different? Or is it different if its not me doing the building but a giant mega company?

 

I think a lot of what you are talking about is being really repelled by large corporations.

And I do relate to that. But stealing is stealing I have yet to really see it justified.

 

sharing.

 

i don't deal much in hypotheticals because real world situations have motives and reasons. i would ask what is the need/want that person was filling by doing that because it obviously wasn't meeting your need to contribute to him if you didn't agree to his taking of your physical property

 

see how it is different you are a individual sharing the same as any other individual. and a corporation is an invention of man run amok taking out and extending copyrights and patents beyond the lifetime of any human being to keep continued control of ideas property and the like(life: GMOs), ideas and tools that could broaden the potential of humanity when shared in much like the open source movement.

 

those needs, to be seen recognized heard or what ever, the artist that we all are in a sense values being appreciated by others , why else would you make something if you didn't want to be seen, not just for money witch alone is only a strategy to meet other real needs (connection peace play food shelter clothing etc etc). see? the pirate party platform is politically solid and it would make anybody a political prisoner if they were persecuted or punished i feel.

 

we are all cogs in this system

 

jeff the more DRM used the more people will resist and see it as a fun challenge to subvert, that is y the efforts are mostly fruitless and wasteful

much like by suggested donation shows work people give what they can or feel it is worth, much the reason worker owned collectives work too there is a human aspect we can empathize with.

[Sawyer]

I am really sorry but your argument doesn't make any sense to me. Its SHARING not stealing because why? Sharing has an implied agreement to it and when both parties don't agree its not sharing.

 

You hate big corporations and you like taking from them. You feel justified. And there are reasons to hate the big corporations I am not excusing them but you seem really diluted into making it ok. The only thing that I can say is if someone SHARED my work the way your are suggesting I would be pretty pissed.

 

I agree that all forms of DRM's will just be seen as a challenge to certain people. Thats just the way it is. Doesn't really make it ok. Call it hacking say you do it because you like to not that it moral or just. And don't make yourself out to be a populist, you aren't sharing bread or housing or building a community center you are taking software. To make money with it.

[AJLynn]

I've read that twice and I have no idea whether it makes sense. Or what the Pirate Party is. (We had a pirate party in college, it mostly involved rum.) Whatever it is, if it's not illegal or advocating illegalities the name is a poor choice.

[Jeff Mottle]

jeff the more DRM used the more people will resist and see it as a fun challenge to subvert, that is y the efforts are mostly fruitless and wasteful

 

Like most locks and protection mechanisms, it keeps honest people honest and all but the most pervasive hackers at bay. Nothing is 100% effective, but I think it's safe to assume if no protection was as effective at keeping people honest it would not be or need to be used. People also would not lock their doors on their house or car and see the need for security systems of any kind.

[shaneis]

I've read that twice and I have no idea whether it makes sense. Or what the Pirate Party is. (We had a pirate party in college, it mostly involved rum.) Whatever it is, if it's not illegal or advocating illegalities the name is a poor choice.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party

[Antisthenes]

honesty, another need we all share

but as my student Diogenes has taught by wandering around with his lamp in broad daylight. that person may be impossible to find

 

works over.

 

the point by now is moot we all understand the issues sort of and they will continue to exist into the foreseeable future.

 

as far as force goes i think the only one to be used is protective and what would we be protecting the workers who write the code? our selfs not being undercut competitively by somebody who has a free tool? or any other open ended question. no need to be upset though because there is always a way everybody can have what they desire and have safety too if we make those choices.

[AJLynn]

The more I read your writing the less sense it makes to me. I have no idea what you're on about.

[shaneis]

Yeah Jonas, your point is starting to sublimate.

[Sawyer]

honesty, another need we all share

but as my student Diogenes has taught by wandering around with his lamp in broad daylight. that person may be impossible to find

 

 

Are you 12? Even the Cynics were more coherent than your arguments.

[Ky Lane]

Are you 12? Even the Cynics were more coherent than your arguments.

 

He's Belgian, give him a break.

[Sawyer]

He's Belgian, give him a break.

 

Nope you are right. Sometimes reading crap on a forum just makes it seem more pissy to me.

 

Jonas, I really wish I understood your point better. And I have looked into much of what the Pirate Party has said and I do agree with a lot of it. Well the part about the invasion of privacy. I am not sure about some of the numbers Falkvigne used to justify say the patents in bio tech but... not an issue here.

[Antisthenes]

if you read the news Belgium may not exist for much longer.

 

Flanders(me) and Walloons will be their own countries or Nederlands or Frankrijk may get larger. Either way it is all just part of a larger EU.

 

I do understand that I have a unconventional writing style. I make the effort to do my best.

 

Did you watch the Utube/google videos of when Falkvigne was touring? I found this very informative, a better presentation of the issue than I could put forth at this point in a post and yes writing takes alway things like facial expressions and tone witch are very important parts of communication.

[Sawyer]

Did you watch the Utube/google videos of when Falkvigne was touring?

 

Yeah I watched that. And I think the points he makes on the issues about privacy are great and really need to be addressed. I wasn't as clear on his stance about the trademark/copyright issues.

[znotlin]

Wow, I thought the information age had made the marxist take on the world's problems untenable. I guess not.

 

The way I see it, people are good, and people are bad all the way up and down the economic ladder. The myth of the noble savage/worker/student, is a myth. As is the myth of the evil business owner.

 

There are plenty of small software manufacturers out there who would and do suffer from cracked software, and they deserve to be paid if you're making money off their product.

 

Sorry dude, with technology, transportation, and ready credit empowering individuals as much as it does, I just can't see making industrial age arguments about the abuse of workers (at least in the West).

[Ray]

Well said, Zeke.