Jet Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Ok I just got this big bad Max 5.1 I did pretty good with those fake radiosity tutorials, now I would like to use the built in Radiosity Capability with the software i spent my life savings on. orangecry Well I have attached my problems and all night headaches and machine hangups so that you can all see my frustrations. This is a 12'x15' Room with two point light in the ceiling which is 8 ' tall, I am just wanting to learn how to use the photometric light features. I can never see the ceiling, the lights have a big hotspot, and that is when i render without radiosity, Everytime I render with Radiosity I always get a orange room or orange house or orange outside or whatever. Please Help I have printed the light section in the user reference manual and i have done the tutorials, they just arent practical so far to what I need. But I see you all doing it everyday so i know that it is probably just me. In any event, I need some help. Jet orangecry Non Radiosity Non Radiosity Stats for you to see http://members.aol.com/acadgineer/nris.jpg Radiosity Image http://members.aol.com/acadgineer/ri.jpg Radiosity Stats for you to see http://members.aol.com/acadgineer/res.jpg Thanks again in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 hi There Jet dont get Jet lag, keep your chin up, dude youre just getting started, rad is cool i am only using VIZ 4 but one Thing i see in your res.jpg settings the value of the "Physical scale" seems set too low try setting the Physical scale to about 90,000 and then make adjustments from There (up or down as needed) i am sure that Others will have more better Info for you i hope This helps i am going thru the same, too i just did my 1st ever sunlight system (VIZ of course) just this last week Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizwhiz Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 hi There Jet (Take II) i re-read your question (2nd Time) here is an attached Image of modifying the Material to keep the Material from bleeding everywhere radiosity override 1 select object 2 Mtl Editor current Material 3 the button to the right of the Mtl id 4 set This to radiosity override see Image hope This helps Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ryan Rubio Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 saw your radiosity settings.. seems like you didnt explore the other settings? try using regather indirect illumination and then increasing the mesh size to get better shadows. wen doing this i find it a lot faster to set initial quality at just 1%.. you'll get an acceptable result with that. increase rays per sample and filtering a bit to get smoother results.. play with the settings. use advanced lighting override only for object that causes excess color bleeds such as the carpet in your scene which casts too much orange on the room. if your wall seems to be rough, try adjusting the light bump parameters to smoothen it. lastly, radiosity works best if your lighting setup is physically accurate. that means, it would be better to place your light source inside a lighting fixture. (howver, dnt use glass or something to block it, just leave it to cast its rays without being blocked off) that would take care of the bright spot on the ceiling and would make the scene more realistic. i hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Iwazawa Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Hi Jet I can´t see your meshing size, but i recommend about to 50 cm, i think it will resolve aome problems on your images What you think about being posting all your advance, after trying everybody tips, i believe it will be very good for you and very interesting for us to see some progress. This way all of us can learn somethimg. Hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Ok so does that mean that for all of the materials that I use, when using radiosity i have to convert them into the advanced material overide setting I did that and at least now my room isnt grey and it also gave me the color bleeding option. but everything is pretty grey right now. Thanks for the help and please continue to pump in suggestions, ima be up for the next couple of days probably jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Thank you for all of your suggestions. I basically just started over again for this little box.I created the materials over again. The Door/and or window material are advanced lighting overide materials. The floor is an advanced overide material. I used a multi sub object material for the door and the glass which are advanced overide materials. I am not using a sunlight source outside, so I did not select Exterior Daylight. Should I be? Also if im not do I still need to adjust the Physical Scale in the environment properties? I am only using two point lights in the ceiling. I am setting their intesity to 139 which in the reference guide states that that would be equivalent to a 100watt light, and as far as the color it is a D56 White Light. The Shadows are on and are set to Shadow Map, Nothing has been excluded. I am using a hemisphere shape as a light fixture and give it the translucent aterial properties if this is incorrect please let me know. As far as the Rays/Sample suggestion given, I dont see a Rays/Sample option in the enderosity Settings, but I do see a Filter setting so i have raised it to 2 and refine settings i have raised to 12. Also the settings that everyone have suggested are here so please continue to spread the knowledge, the advice is more than appreciated. Like i said earlier the fakeosity tutorials which I HAVE LEARNED ALOT FROM will not help me in this situation, otherwise I would just used that and learn this radiosity stuff later, but I guess that since i made this commitment and the investment, I want to learn and be in control over my output and not leave it to chance.(which sometimes has gotten me out of tight spots,hehehe) Thanks again for all of your help. I only get black when I use these settings, I will leave it here until I hear back on a reply. Attached are the images and their stats. Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Ok, Wow, I just removed that light fixture and this was the result, Ok im not going to move a single step, Can someone shed some light on this but still keep at towards the solution to the overall problem. I think that this would make a great tutorial for us newbies who want to do a first Rad Calc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 I also changed the shadow type for those two free point lights into Shadow Raytraced Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Iwazawa Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 send me the max file i could see what can be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 :angenone: Ok, i dont know if this is improvement or what, In my eyes it does not have the crispness nor the clarity that I would like for it to have, but at least it is not completely black anymore. Ok, I have made a few adjustments on my own. I applied self lumination to the light fixture itself, and I pulled the free point lights down a little bit, I changed the Shadows to Area Shadows. I also increased the initial Quality settings to 75% from 1 %. I took the Refine Iterations down to 2, I took the Filtering down up to 4, and the meshing size to 10" I Placed the two ceiling 100w type bulbs below the hemisphere as opposed to the inside of the hemisphere, because it seems to give me a better result. Should I not do this, Does this take away from some of the realism. The hemisphere is a translucent material, so in my eyes if you put the light sources inside of the hemishpere it should be ok, but the image is very very dark when I do that. I also added a couple of objects that hopefully spread the bouncing around a little more, and to complicate it for myself added two more light sources,Should I not do this, Does this take away from some of the realism. The hemisphere is a translucent material, so in my eyes if you put the light sources inside of the hemishpere it should be ok, but the image is very very dark when I do that. Ok so filtering should remove the black speckles if i set it to 3 or 4 right, that is what the user reference guide tells me so that is what i did. I had to disable the Regather Indirect Illumination option because it made the rendering very blotchy when I used it with the meshing enabled. Oh Yea and my ceiling looks Jacked up. it is the same material as the walls, why does it look so errrrrrr uhhhhhh thick? The floors are supposed to be a wood floor that is shiny and slippery looking. My floors look like you could walk and get stuck! As far as for the shadows, like i said, I used Area Shadows, in your opinion is this good or bad.It seems that I get a better result when i use those as opposed to ray traced. initial quality:85% refine iterations:2 filtering:4 Meshing size:1' I am attaching the images with the two lights in the ceiling with: Shadows: Area Shadows Shadows: Ray Traced Shadows Shadows: Shadow Mapped Here are the Parameter Settings Here it is again with raytraced shadows Here it is with shadow map Here is what I get when I use Regather Indirect Illumination and Meshing Togehter at the same time Also attached are the results from using regather indirect illumination and enabling the meshing, it gives a very blotchy look. Thanks in Advance and thanks for the responses. After I get a whole of this I would like to put a daylight source outside and hopefully can get more understanding as well. Thanks again Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 It might help us help you if you can post the scene for us to play with. In the mean time try: Turn up your filter radius.....read through the help files - they cover radiosty quite extensively (well at least what each setting does). The higher the radius the smoother the result. Try 10 and see what it gives you. Also when you process the radiosity solution set your iterations at 8 to 10. Filter no more than 4. --edit--- one more thing - make sure your materials are within the proper reflectance ranges. you can do a google search for this. Here is a Viz4 Radiosity Tuturial pack (zipped) of info I collected from my Viz4 Radiosty days [ July 13, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: xgarcia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 13, 2003 Author Share Posted July 13, 2003 Part 3 Ok, Again thanks for everyones help in helping me get a better understanding of Radiosity and how it is supposed to work in Max5.1 You know what, I think that I am beginning to like this. It is not as sucky as it was last night! This is by far the best solution that I have gotten since I started. This was done with the settings that I am attaching Initial Quality:80% Refine Iterations(all objects): 20 Refine Iterations (Selected Objects): 0 Check Process Refine Iterations Stored in Objects Filtering: 3 The reference manual says that 3 or 4 would be best I used American units for my meshing size, and set them to 4" which will increase your Calculation time a bit, but gives a much better result I turned off the Regather Indirect Illumination altogether. Now I am looking at the Ceiling, Can anybody explain what is happening with that thing. it is the same material as the walls. Why does it look like hard carpet. I have a very slight bump map to it, and it is only at a value of 5, just like the walls. Attached is a more up to date image with my new settings. Thanks also to Uirsu who really really helped to figure some of this stuff out! Here is the most recent image with the new settings Here are the settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 seems like we posted at the same time... That is looking much better. I think you see more bump on the ceilnig because of the angle we see the clg at vs. the wall as almost straight on. Just decresed the bump I guess. What are you using for the light fixtures? Self-illumnating material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Ok, here is something that has always made me kinda go ahead and hit File and exit and say i will get back to it later. MAKING LIGHT GO THRU A GLASS MATERIAL IN MAX. Is it even possible? I would like for the light to go through the glass and hit the floor as it would in real life. I think that that would be alot better than what I have now, This scene has been lit with only an exterior light. I think that It may be ok for right now. Why is the light doing that in the corners, as if it is coming through the walls. I cant figure it out. If it was the modeling, then it would have done it on the interior light radiosity as well right? Well any help on this is appreciated. jet :ebiggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ryan Rubio Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 hey jet, your making good progress. about the ceiling looking like a carpet (thick) try this: assign the ceiling a material with advanced lighting override. somewhere in the parameters is a bump scale. reduce it to around .1 - .5 depending on what you prefer. ceiling will now render smoothly. this will also give your walls a smoother appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 I figured it out good enough I think. Here is the latest of my practice with this thing before I start hammering out on my kitchen project. Well Thanks again, if anyone needs to get some steps or something like that from me let me know, I kept good notes Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 That light bump scale on the overide materials thingy didnt work. Any more suggestions Jet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Actually that did work! Here are the settings Jet another and the settings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 Ok it is getting better and better now, I am not so discouraged anymore. I can make this happen and get better and better. Now I am going to turn off the interior Lights and try to light the inside with an exterior light only from outside. Here goes :ebiggrin: :winkgrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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