MegaPixel Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 http://www.hobson-eds.com/roofing_example.jpg The above link shows an example of the kinds of Roofs I will be required to Model in MAX. It shows Hip and Ridge construction with gables and other detail features. I need to know how you would approach modeling this Roof object in MAX. I have trouble with roofs in general, the rest of the house is rectilinear enough for most novice users to figure out. I have CAD files of the above roof available upon request if you would like. I have seen other posts in this forum that ask similar questions about roof modeling, but don't site specific examples. This is my specific example Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 When i was over at Ted Boardman's site: http://www.tbmax.com/ I noticed this particular tutorial web site. http://www.complete-support.com/ Try logging in here for the free trial to see just how good the online tutorials are first of all. Then i would highly recommend, going for much more. Never mind book stuff on MAX or VIZ, because this just blows it away in terms of practicality and usefulness. There is one exercise there which shows how to model a roof like it should be done. http://www.cadenceweb.com/2000/0500/vizualization0500.html I normally keep my links to tutorials etc here: http://groups.msn.com/Hanlpics I know i came across a roof tutorial somewhere yesterday, but god damn if i know where! :winkgrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomasz Misztal Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 This is actually quite easy, and could be done in no more then an hour....basically import the 2D PLAN view into MAX and set points where ever there is a an end point. Then import all elevation views and move the points on the Z axis to match the elevation...then it's a matter of connecting those points with a mesh...sounds easy right? I've done a roof like this (a bit simplier), but with actually putting in all the members for the roof using I-shaped "floor" joists...now that was a lot more difficult! Took me about 5 hrs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Instead points I would make a spline cage - then use snap to make the mesh. make sure spline(s) is on different layer or name so you can quickly turn it off/on as you like. best of luck. xavier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Does anyone here use the nudge grid command when using making vertices? That is so you can draw in plan or elevation but move the grid in the depth direction? I assume by points, vertex sub-objects were being made yeah? Or is there an actual point object in max that one can use? Actually being good a CAD, the spline frame could first be constructed in AutoCAD using 3d Polygons and imported to MAX if it saved any time. [ May 28, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 that's exactly what i would do - build the cage in autocad. but why stop there - we could jsut 3dface it in autocad and import to max.? lots of way to do it. you could solids it in autocad - import to max - delete unwanted polygons / faces and do that nifty little autoedge trick i learned yesterday. I don't think you can create points in max - liek in formz. Anyone know if you can - would it just be an isloated vertex? I don't know what the nudge grid command is - I'll read up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 that's exactly what i would do - build the cage in autocad. but why stop there - we could jsut 3dface it in autocad and import to max.? But making the faces in MAX is a joy to use by comparison to drawing 3d faces in AutoCAD. Can't understand the people who still actually use 3dfaces today - my own autocad tutor for one. lots of way to do it. you could solids it in autocad - import to max - delete unwanted polygons / faces and do that nifty little autoedge trick i learned yesterday. Boolean in AutoCAD would get rid of MOST unwanted faces before importation. I don't think you can create points in max - liek in formz. Anyone know if you can - would it just be an isloated vertex? Yeah, i think that is the case - sub object level, standard max mesh modelling proceedure. The smoothing groups can be awfully complicated though, but i don't suppose they would matter for this geometry. I don't know what the nudge grid command is - I'll read up. Two shortcut keys, which move the active grid helper object up or down, or rather near or far away from you - in the viewport which is active. You can see in the other viewports the level change of the grid helper object. Mostly used by charachter modellers who are tracing from bitmaps of faces/torsos/limbs to basically keep the mesh modelling tidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelfoZ Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000166 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 Well done, great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaPixel Posted May 29, 2003 Author Share Posted May 29, 2003 First of all, In response to Delfoz's post with a link to an earlier post about this subject, That's why I titled this topic with a "Part 2" Secondly, I just paid an insane amount of money today to get customized MAX training with a focus on Architectural Roof Modeling examples such as this one. We covered Spline and Mesh Editing methods. When all was said and done, we both agreed that it would be quicker and more efficient for me to just model it in the program I know, then import into MAX and go from there. In other words, modeling with accuracy in MAX is slow and sucky. I'm about ready to give up here :ngeupset: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelfoZ Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Mega. To model with more accuracy and more fast u only need more practice, only that. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaPixel Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Spline_Ref_1.jpg http://www.cgarchitect.com/forum/filepush.asp?file=Spline_Ref_2.jpg OK The above links show my febal attempts to do a simple Spline Cage type Roof. First off, let me say that I would never have gotten this far without the understanding that all of the segments must be individual to do proper Spline modeling and that no one face can have more then 4 vertex's on it or it will simply puke on you when you apply a surface modifier. That said, I created a simple spline cage accordingly using both 3D and 2.5 Snaps for better control. Is this an ideal spline cage? You got me! I'm new to this stuff but I feel like I broke some ground here. Anyway, The problem I'm having is with the Surface modifier Topology pattern. As you can see, the mesh isn't uniform and tends to do some unexpected stuff (Looks pretty awkward in wireframe) what do I have to do to prevent this type of thing from happening? Do I have to add more slices to the cage to provide more direction for the mesh or did a somehow screw up my cage? If I can takle this kind of thing, I might try to Spline cage model my roof objects more in the future. Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 lol. why not just CREATE FACES off the spline cage? [ May 30, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaPixel Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Because I didn't know I could do that. Could you elaborate on that process Strat? I'm willing to try anything here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 sub-select the cage, then use this command i've circled - it will allow you to build new 3 sided faces between the verts in the spline cage [edit] you really would be better off and easier and faster CADding this up instead [edit] [ May 30, 2003, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaPixel Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 There is not doubt you are correct Strat. I just feel like I need to know how to do this. Sometimes I might want to make changes on the fly after I've gotten meshes into MAX. Most likely in a time crunch, I will just use another program which I am more familiar with, but for the slow time, I'd like to try to do this stuff in MAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgarcia Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 megapixel - I think I might have confused you with the term "spline cage". What I and some other were referring to is simply to build splines represented the outline of the roof - and use them for reference to lay down polygons or faces (using snaps if you want). If you look at a MAX 3d character modelling site or book, they would refer to "spline cage" as actually building a cage made from splines and then using a surface modifer to create the mesh. I guess in a way they are the same thing but the first method comes out cleaner. From the looks of your image - the surfaae modifier add unnecessary edges (I've actually never neede to use it). Maybe I'm wrong - anyone else? Strat's right - you could just 3dface it autocad following a "line reference cage " to build the 3dfaces onto. Whatever is fastest I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethace Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Sometimes, the 'create faces' tool in the faces sub-object panel is useful for site modelling. You know, when you import 2d contours as splines, position them accurately in the z dimension, and then use the VIZ create contour model tool. Well sometimes one does need to take 'chunks' out of the landscape, to settle in your building and so on. This is an example of knowing a bit about helper grid objects and manually creating faces at subobject level can be a great tool in VIZ/MAX. I agree with the other posters - this surface modifier sounds to me like a complete load of crock. And MAX is full of it too, at times. I have linked a tutorial here in the Lightwave forum at cgarchitect. Even though the software is differently, it is exactly the same process of making faces manually as you should do in MAX modelling. http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000028 Observe the animated gifs in particular, and you will see exactly what i mean about editing/adding/subtracting new faces to a site model mesh object generated in VIZ/MAX. Word of warning: if you do find MAX a complete POS, then my advice is to use something like Lightwave to model anything. Because you will notice from the animated gifs of the lightwave model - it has one outstanding charachteristic which MAX fails in - that is, Lightwave uses quad sided Polygons which are totally more useful and easier than the MAX triangular nightmares. orangeno About the only useful tool in MAX, for modelling site models manually from scratch is the quad patch modifier. The first one of Ted Boardman's links here, shows the process involve in media player: http://www.tbmax.com [ May 30, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: garethace ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHaidar Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 MegaPixel If you are creating planar surfaces you can set the Topology Steps to 0. This will reduce the number of unnecessary faces. If the polygon count is a major issue you might want to consider modeling the gable in the spline_ref_2 image as a separate entity. It will cut down the number of triangles needed to create the surface. Could you post the CAD for the initial roofing example image? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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