art.chitect Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Hi all, I need Your sharing here.... I already know 3D for years, but just start seriously learn for last 3 months. Start looking for Tutorial since modeling etc. I fall in love with MR, that's why I'm really looking for MR source... (SandmanNinja know about this already )... But Now, GOT CONFUSED.....I'm looking around, almost everybody use V-Ray already, and the result I saw, it's quite fantastic for me... Actually what I want is start everything from the basic, until I can understand about what's is on my hand, not just "click here and there, and DONE"....but the market now, they are just like ask you to do with V-ray..... Now my Boss insist me to start V-ray, or the worst is just to kick me out. (actually He know nothing about 3D at all, just believe in V-ray) What do You think about this condition, what is the best for me to decide? My Ego said start from basic but My market said...Go directly to the point.... Thanx, for Your Share.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fadi3d Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Hello felix, i started max as a hobie but now i am being paid to do architectural visualisation.i have to tell u the road was not alway smooth and easy it will take some time.and be sure that although a lot of kind people will help u, no one is ever going to teach u all they know.as for vray u know it's just a tool,i've seen people do amazing stuff with Radiosity (yep but i couldn't )Mr Vray or fry.here in my country everybody is going with vray.my boss wanted me to learn it and it paid off .so it's a matter of personal taste u should decide. take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippu Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 based on working with both of them ..both are very similar in their approach ...i feel just their terminology differs...vray has a lot more support , mental ray has more powerful shaders...its just a matter of choice... in 2009 MR has been very simpler and looks better than ever before but since you are starting i would suggest give vray a try and then come back to MR later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 If you know mental ray you can probably pick up Vray pretty quickly - like Maria said, they aren't really that different once you get past the first level of learning, and you don't need to throw out everything you know about mental ray. Fortunately there is a ton of material out there on Vray. Have a look at the Visualization Insider article on Vray (links from the front page of cgarchitect.com) and maybe the Gnomon videos on Global Illumination, which use Vray. Try a scene or two and then whatever issues come up, try searching for the answer in this forum and if you don't find it ask a question in the Vray section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 well, each are just tools so go with whichever hammer fits your hand. Sounds like your boss is the type to attribute pleasing work to software rather then the artist which is a rough position to be in. That said, it sounds like you have two choices - educate your boss by showing him equally stunning architectural renderings from mental ray or educate yourself on Vray. Personally, i've used both and prefer/enjoy Mental Ray more. It has more to do with economics and who I learned from than anything else, though. For Mental Ray, there is a mental ray section here but it's not as active as several others (sorry, jeff) - look at the following and you will get much more targeted help and give you direct access to those working on the development much like the Chaos group forum: http://forum.lamrug.org/ (this is a must) http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/ User generated content: http://www.vizdepot.com/forums/index.php http://www.mymentalray.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art.chitect Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 Hi all, Thanx a lot for all of the comment. I just realize that at the Boss point of view, what would they concern is just about the benefit, they won't ever care about the progress how we did it. Actually for me i'm afraid that it's gonna be just like a puzzle that i can't finish, because i learn MR just a half, and V-ray just start.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneis Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Well I suppose if your boss wants you to use V-Ray, then focus on it, learn it and you can always apply what you learn to mental ray in the future. As said above, the principles are the same in both renderers. There's plenty of help on this forum. Here's a link I found in a post here, it is a very good thread about the principles og CG lighting and rendering. All the info applies to any renderer. Take the time to read it. http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=21&t=650761&page=1&pp=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Unfortunately your bosses choise sounds like its based on a sales pitch rather than a true investigation and commparisson of the two renderers and how best each can benifit the company. That is your challenge, to convince him which will be more useful and more importantly more profitable to the company. At the end of the day it wont hurt you to learn both, if anything it will give you more chance to progress in this industry. Very quickly you will work out which is better for you. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoodylove Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 In Architect Visualizer Vray is the Best(speed and BeautyGi)but animation more problem if object move and transform mental ray i thing is best for product design but i thing final render is the best choice if u dot like vray "sorry for my English skill":p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Sadly, its misconceptions like this that really confuse the issue. Both are very good at Arch Viz, Both are very good at Product Design, Both are very good at Production. At the end of the day its more important to work out which fits into your pipeline most efficiently, which you are the most productive with and ultimately which will be most profitable to the company. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art.chitect Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Thank all of my friends Unfortunately the world is always confusing... I realized that everything is just about what we have to decide in life.. Thanx a lot for all of Your input for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) If other guys at your company are using Vray, it makes sense for you to adapt so everyone can share shaders, lighting info, etc. without issues. If you're the only rendering guy and your boss insists on Vray, he's a dumb***, and the best way to get him to change his mind is to show him equally good or better MR renders (good luck with that!), tell him MR is included free with Max ($1000 for Vray), and so on. 10 years ago at work, management was all "Alias this, Alias that, blah, blah..." (Alias Studio -Maya didn't exist) 'cause they didn't know **** and liked to seem knowledgeable, so they all repeated the same thing. Within 6 moths we totally switch to Max, and 4 years ago to Vray. Edited October 22, 2008 by DavidR Foul language ...but WTF is OK!?! Hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Dude, AliasStudio is AWESOME. (I'm assuming you're in vehicle design/viz?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 If other guys at your company are using Vray, it makes sense for you to adapt so everyone can share shaders, lighting info, etc. without issues. If you're the only rendering guy and your boss insists on Vray, he's a dumbass, and the best way to get him to change his mind is to show him equally good or better MR renders (good luck with that!), tell him MR is included free with Max ($1000 for Vray), and so on. 10 years ago at work, management was all "Alias this, Alias that, blah, blah..." (Alias Studio -Maya didn't exist) 'cause they didn't know shit and liked to seem knowledgeable, so they all repeated the same thing. Within 6 moths we totally switch to Max, and 4 years ago to Vray. dude, watch the language...it doesn't help give what you're saying much credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art.chitect Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Guys...do You have any ideas about how to solve this issue: Now my Boss is very "KIND" to me....She gave me time, until this Friday, She want me to show Her my rendering result using V-Ray, in the Photorealistic Result, otherwise, She'll kick me out, because She already hired somebody that She said able to do V-Ray.... Any ideas, how I can learn so fast about V-Ray, while I know nothing about it? And, can You give me any comments about my works here , is it really really bad and not nice? Maybe somebody who works in Singapore can give me some guide about the standard in other company out there? Hehehe, what a wonderfull world..right? Thanx to all of You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 WTF. I do not like your boss. Your work on that web site is pretty good. Were you using mental ray for it? The appropriate comparison is between your mental ray work and the other guy's Vray work, not his Vray and whatever Vray you can learn in the next 3 days. Unfortunately I'm being reasonable here, and "reasonable" might not apply to your boss. What happened, did somebody give her a sales pitch for Vray and convince her it's the only thing out there that can render architecture? Since she is being something between unreasonable and outright stupid, I suggest that you be somewhere between unreasonable and outright dishonest in turn, by following some tutorials on sites like Evermotion and what have you and presenting those results, by using premade materials from http://www.vray-materials.de/ and maybe if you have time, apply those materials to one of your buildings (or part of one of your buildings) and doing some exterior only renders - these are the easiest kind. Feel free to do some tricks like making an AO pass in mental ray etc. The Vray sun and sky are easy but maybe because of time you should ust go with a direct light, the GI environment override, the standard Max camera and Photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Guys...do You have any ideas about how to solve this issue: Now my Boss is very "KIND" to me....She gave me time, until this Friday, She want me to show Her my rendering result using V-Ray, in the Photorealistic Result, otherwise, She'll kick me out, because She already hired somebody that She said able to do V-Ray.... Any ideas, how I can learn so fast about V-Ray, while I know nothing about it? And, can You give me any comments about my works here , is it really really bad and not nice? Maybe somebody who works in Singapore can give me some guide about the standard in other company out there? Hehehe, what a wonderfull world..right? Thanx to all of You at the risk of sounding like a car salesman, this might be your best bet. 3 hours and it covers interior and exterior lighting. http://3dats.vismasters.com/catalog/viewproduct.aspx?product=4503 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 when push comes to shove, this would be your best bet too. Once the dust has settled, then you can get in and really learn Vray. Why do I have the feeling that there is more to this story? jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Dude, AliasStudio is AWESOME. (I'm assuming you're in vehicle design/viz?) Yes it is, but it's not the best tool for design viz, from any point of view, be it render quality, render time, animation, or cost, plus it was SGI/Irix in those days, so $80k for hardware, $20K+ for Studio vs $4k for Max and $5k for hardware. If I had to pick 1 software for my desert island, it would be Studio because of the sketch to model to manufacturing flow, but mostly I use Max and Vray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 If you have to match another guy's quality using software you don't know well, you're in big trouble. You need to show your boss a comparison between your MR vs someone's Vray and say that you can get there with Vray given time. If your boss doesn't agree, she's being unreasonable, and maybe you should just sleep with her. Or try what the other guys said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 If you have to match another guy's quality using software you don't know well, you're in big trouble. You need to show your boss a comparison between your MR vs someone's Vray and say that you can get there with Vray given time. If your boss doesn't agree, she's being unreasonable, and maybe you should just sleep with her. Or try what the other guys said. If the boss wants to use vray, doesnt mean she's unreasonable. too me it means that she has made a decision as to which renderer works best for her company and she has decided that she can only afford to give the guy a week to get to a certain point. it's better than being fired without being given any chance, and if he knows mental ray very well, then it's not an impossible task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 If the boss wants to use vray, doesnt mean she's unreasonable. too me it means that she has made a decision as to which renderer works best for her company and she has decided that she can only afford to give the guy a week to get to a certain point. it's better than being fired without being given any chance, and if he knows mental ray very well, then it's not an impossible task. ..except that he already mentioned that she doesn't know anything about 3d, she's just regurgitating something she's heard over and over. Don't get me wrong, we went with Vray after evaluating MR, fR, and we're very happy with it, and Vlado's support is the best. I think the boss is right if the company already uses Vray, as I mentioned before, but it sounds just like a situation I faced years ago -the only way to beat it is to change their mind with things they care about, like quality, time, and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Yes, it is true that the quality of work is a direct reflection of the talent posesed by the person creating. However, after using both in profesional production, I won't hesitate to say that each one excelerates at a different area of architectural visualization. Or at least I seem to be able to create better results with different ones, in different circumstances. Exterior produced with MR seem to have better color toning and balance than what Vray does. Sure, Vray can produce everything MR can on exterior, but straight up, I would grab for MR over Vray for an exterior. The only part that would make me hesitate slightly on that is when it comes to proxies. Vray seems to handle memory mangement better with its proxy system than what MR does. While MR is better at exterior, I would have to give the hand to Vray when it comes to interiors. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, but when it comes to interior lighting, Vray seems to dispearse the light better throughtout the space. And this dispersion of light is calculated faster than what it is with MR. But in the end, it does come down to talent of an individual because the quality of an image lies in Light / Composition / Modeling / Materials / Texturing. The comparison I made above between MR and Vray only involves light on the interior and exterior. Beyond that, the other 4 areas are equal. Or will soon be equal, since it is my understanding that future versions of Vray will support Arch and Design materials. I don't know how experienced the other person is, but be cautious if they are simply saying they know Vray. I know a lot of people who have claimed to know it, only to find out that they were doing little more than hitting the render button. It takes several real world production projects, and at least a years worth of proffesional production work before I wil trust someone on saying that they know how to use a piece of software. Edited October 22, 2008 by Crazy Homeless Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecton3d Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 It takes several real world production projects, and at least a years worth of proffesional production work before I wil trust someone on saying that they know how to use a piece of software. quoted for agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmccoy Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 This is just speaking from personal experience working in the field. I would try and learn V-Ray. There is great support out there and you can pick up the basics with it pretty quickly. I did an internship with an architectural visualization firm that used v-ray. After I graduated I started working with an architecture company doing 3D work. We use v-ray there and most other companies we deal with or trade 3d models with use v-ray as well. From my experience it's the easy choice to go with. Hopefully your boss will give you time to work things out. Good luck with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now