noisy animation

[chow choppe]

hi all

just finished my first aniamtion with vray. i am having some noise in the animation which the client is oiting out

but i didnt have time to render this at higher settings

But now the client has 2 days more for this and is saying to improve the quality

Can someone please suggest me whats the reason behind this noise as i feel i am using good enough settings for this

 

http://rapidshare.com/files/155729168/GYM_2.mov.html

 

I have used IR map seetings as medium animation, HSph subd as 50, interpolation samples as 20,

 

LC settings as - 2000 subdivisons in flythru mode, 0.02 sample size,

 

Adaptive amount 0.85, noise threshhold- 0.01,

 

IMAGE SAMPLING

adaptive subdivison 0 , 2

area filter

 

 

I have tried changing these settings to higher values but nothing effects the noise much

the only thing that makes the noise smaller is when i change to adaptive DMC.

 

 

I have put 3 vray lights outside the glass and have glass excluded from these lgihts

also there is one vray light right below that ceiling dome

 

Do i need to increase the subdivisions for these?

 

Also i tried increasing the global subdivisons multiplier for this but even that doesnt halp

 

Please help me out

 

Thanks

[Brian Smith]

1st of all, i suggest using something other than rapidshare to have people download from. i personally wont ever use it and i certainly wouldn't wait a min or so just to be able to start downloading.

 

a couple of things though. i recommend never using adapt subdivision for production renders...period. if you use anything above a -1 min rate, you negate the whole purpose of using it, and while a -1 rate can give you faster renders, it will never suffice for production renders, especially when blurry effects are used (ie all renders).

 

i recommend never placing the lights outside the glass...it's simply not necessary and it will only add interior noise, reduce illumination, and require longer render times (especially when the glass is more opaque. excluding the glass from the lights is not the solution.

 

also, are you rendering lightcache in screen or world mode?

 

i dont recommend ever increasing global subdivision multiplier, as that affects many different areas of vray. if you have a problem somewhere, fix the problem where the problem lies. dont apply a global setting that improves quality in places that quality doesnt need improvement. that is an expense fix that you just dont need to make.

 

those are just a few things. good luck.

[chow choppe]

Hi Brian

 

thanks for the inputs

 

Sorry for the rapidshare thing. will try to upload on my ftp next time. The space was full this time:-(

 

so i shud use Adaptive DMc with default 1,4 values.?

 

i have been trying to put lights inside the windows after going thru ur practical interior lighting module but then in one of my other threads someone didnt recommend that so now i am confused as people have reason for both the solutions.:-(. So u suggest that putting them outside will reduce this noise?

 

i rendered the LC in Screen mode

 

I increased the global subdivision multiplier as the last resort. i never use it though until i am not able to find any other solution

 

Thanks for your time. looking for more inputs to improve this

 

Thanks

[Lester_Masterson]

a couple of things though. i recommend never using adapt subdivision for production renders...period. if you use anything above a -1 min rate, you negate the whole purpose of using it, and while a -1 rate can give you faster renders, it will never suffice for production renders, especially when blurry effects are used (ie all renders).

 

Brian,

 

Excellent advice...sounds like a video tutorial I purchased

 

But, if you suggest DMC sampling, what would be practical settings for a scene with mixed solid white walls and soft blurred reflections in a dark concrete floor? I tried 2,6 that resulted in long render and noise in my solids. Did I miss something?

 

\sorry if this sounds like a threadjack

[kippu]

why is LC in screen mode for an animation?

[chow choppe]

my vray crashes while i calculate in world mode

units set to mm and sample size to 0.02mm

even if i make it 5mm it crashes

 

I dont know why

screen mode calculates fine tahst why i did in screen mode

 

Thanks

[Brian Smith]

Hi Brian

 

so i shud use Adaptive DMc with default 1,4 values.?

 

Thanks

 

absolutely not....for production renders, 1/4 will almost never do. since you mentioned the interior video tutorial, please see the attached images. the 1st is with a min/max of 1/4 and the 2nd is 2/5. notice the difference in detail, especially around the window frames and railings. if you can afford a little more render time then i suggest 3/6. remember though that the clr thresh value is what controls how adaptive the sampler is, so if you set it to 0.0, then your sampler is no longer adaptive at all and you will get a fixed sampling using your max value. on the flip side, if it's not low enough, then the min subdivs will satisfy the threshold and vray wont even go after the max subdivs value for any pixels. also, in those images, the GI was improved also, which adds to the increase in render times, but if GI isn't sufficient accurate, your image sampling won't matter anyway.

 

 

i have been trying to put lights inside the windows after going thru ur practical interior lighting module but then in one of my other threads someone didnt recommend that so now i am confused as people have reason for both the solutions.:-(. So u suggest that putting them outside will reduce this noise?

 

Thanks

 

you should always put inside the window. the reasons are many and the video explains this in great detail.

 

 

i rendered the LC in Screen mode

 

Thanks

 

if your camera 'generally' moves through your scenes and constantly sees new surfaces in the foreground that were previously in the background, then you should always use World mode. And as another basic rule, you should start with a size value that represents 2% of your screen size (ie the default sample size when using screen mode). so figure out what size in your 3D world 2% of your screen represents in the middle of your screen, and that will be a good start. 02mm is way, way, way too small for all but the smallest of scenes. you'll never be able to subdivide your scene so much anyway without a ridiculous number of subdivs.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Brian Smith

[Brian Smith]

Brian,

 

Excellent advice...sounds like a video tutorial I purchased

 

But, if you suggest DMC sampling, what would be practical settings for a scene with mixed solid white walls and soft blurred reflections in a dark concrete floor? I tried 2,6 that resulted in long render and noise in my solids. Did I miss something?

 

\sorry if this sounds like a threadjack

 

always try 2/5 and then 2/6 or 3/6. if you are getting low render times, there are a myriad of reasons...here's just a few.

 

• your clr thresh is set to low (on production renders, start with 0.005 and go to 0.004 or 0.003 only if you know it's the weakest link in your rendering and is what's preventing vray from sampling higher)
  
• you are using qmc/dmc gi which will not only be longer to calculate, but will make the image sampler work harder to satisfy the clr thresh (because of the fine granular noise this type of GI brings out)
  
• your GI is set poorly
  
• you are using the 'Use LC for glossy rays option'
  
• your noise thresh value is set to low (which should always be left at 0.01 unless you absolutely can't fix a problem where the problem lies)
  
• your adaptive amount isnt set to 1.0 (which causes vray to make all adaptive areas less adaptive and therefore slower)
  
• you aren't using interpolation on blurry reflections or refractions (which should only be used on very blurred materials, such as 0.7 or less)
  
• improper RAM, object, and light management
  
• these are just a drop in the bucket...there's so many other ways your scene can be unnecessarily susceptible to long render times
  

[Brian Smith]

my vray crashes while i calculate in world mode

units set to mm and sample size to 0.02mm

even if i make it 5mm it crashes

 

I dont know why

screen mode calculates fine tahst why i did in screen mode

 

Thanks

 

you can't possibly benefit (or in most cases use) values small as 5mm. try the 6inches or the equivalent in metric...but see my previous post for more explanation.

[chow choppe]

absolutely not....for production renders, 1/4 will almost never do. since you mentioned the interior video tutorial, please see the attached images. the 1st is with a min/max of 1/4 and the 2nd is 2/5. notice the difference in detail, especially around the window frames and railings. if you can afford a little more render time then i suggest 3/6. remember though that the clr thresh value is what controls how adaptive the sampler is, so if you set it to 0.0, then your sampler is no longer adaptive at all and you will get a fixed sampling using your max value. on the flip side, if it's not low enough, then the min subdivs will satisfy the threshold and vray wont even go after the max subdivs value for any pixels. also, in those images, the GI was improved also, which adds to the increase in render times, but if GI isn't sufficient accurate, your image sampling won't matter anyway.

 

 

 

you should always put inside the window. the reasons are many and the video explains this in great detail.

 

 

 

if your camera 'generally' moves through your scenes and constantly sees new surfaces in the foreground that were previously in the background, then you should always use World mode. And as another basic rule, you should start with a size value that represents 2% of your screen size (ie the default sample size when using screen mode). so figure out what size in your 3D world 2% of your screen represents in the middle of your screen, and that will be a good start. 02mm is way, way, way too small for all but the smallest of scenes. you'll never be able to subdivide your scene so much anyway without a ridiculous number of subdivs.

 

 

Thanks Brian for taking out time to anser these

I was just lookign at the 2 images. Whats the noise in the ceiling area of first floor. i am not able to get rid of that completely in my scene. It becomes finer but its still there in the scene.

In ur second image that ceiling is looking absolutely clean

how did u do that?

 

thanks