Jason Matthews Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hello all, I have been tasked with researching Revit and ArchiCAD and determining which is the best fit for our firm. I know this question has been asked for rendering programs and of course it depends on the user, but in this case I am making the decision for 50 people. I have done a lot of research so far but the issue I have come across is that very little of it is unbiased one way or another. The arguments for Revit outweigh the arguements for ArchiCAD but I can kind of attribute that to the fact that Revit has many more users, at least in the US. Can you share your opinions or point me in the right direction to where I maight find more credited information? Thank you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 You'll find some very in depth and unbiased reviews of both platforms here. More specifically, here's a review of Archicad 12. And here's one for Revit. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Matthews Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Thanks Jack. I will read them today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamir Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 You'll find some very in depth and unbiased reviews of both platforms here. More specifically, here's a review of Archicad 12. And here's one for Revit. Jack +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskin Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 saturn, let me know what you decide or think. we just went through this process and made a decision. im curious to here what your opinions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Matthews Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 saturn, let me know what you decide or think. we just went through this process and made a decision. im curious to here what your opinions are. Well so far we have been to an ArchiCAD presentation at a firm here in town. This is the first we have seen from an unbiased source. So far so good. We were actually about 80% to 20% in favor of Revit but after seeing how this firm uses it and what they want to get out of it (all firms are different) it really looks like a viable option, and it was designed by architects so its got to be better than the alternate...right? At any rate we are going to be doing a small pilot project with both systems and will report back what we find. Thanks for your response Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb602 Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thanks for your response Jack. Sure thing. I'll be curious to hear what you discover. I've read a lot about both apps, but haven't used either of them in production. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYMOND Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 don't know it this helps but last week i attended a BIM conference about 60 people, serveral confessed that they started out with ArchiCAD but had to later go over to Revit, mostly due to connections they with other consultants etc they had to deal with.. so it wasn't a mater of which program was better but rather what best suited the infrastructure of the process. I have trouble with the phrase "designed by Architects" when it comes to software... first of all real Architects don't know how to write the code.. next what architecture software is there that doesn't have heavy input by its intended user... my take... harsh i know... r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 don't know it this helps ........ first of all real Architects don't know how to write the code........ r ...... the good old "No true Scot..." fallacy in logic and argumentation. You should look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 well archicad isn't owned by autodesk..... there's one argument for ya! Joking aside though, I'll make the comment that we were going after a project where part of the contract required all of the documents to be done in Revit. (We are an archicad firm) We've got a few people who started on Revit, so it's not that big of a deal, but as interaction between architects and consultants becomes more popular in a BIM environment I have a feeling that we are going to see more of this in the future. Yes there's great applications like Navisworks, and with IFC formats that allow us to exchange "smart data" sometimes your BIM platform doesn't matter, however there's no laws stating a client can't request it's user's into a specific platform to aid in collaboration. Revit's has a wider user count in the US, Archicad has a larger user count outside the US (this is something I've been told, not 100% sure) which leads me to believe that projects in the US are more likely to be requested on Revit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I have trouble with the phrase "designed by Architects" when it comes to software... first of all real Architects don't know how to write the code.. next what architecture software is there that doesn't have heavy input by its intended user... I'll give ya a little heat.... In reality, real architects can't engineer a building to stand either. I think 'designed' is the key word. I haven't used ArchiCad, but there is a lot to be said for a well designed piece of software, which is different from a well coded piece of software. A well designed piece of software should be intuitive and graceful. It should not hinder your process but enhance it, and make the process a pleasure, rather than a chore. Though they are closer to having the knowledge to engineer a building to stand than they are having the knowledge to code a piece of software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I've used both and prefer not to. The marketing the pressure the restrictions to design turned me off. So i stay outside the box for now as only special projects that demand(GSA) it does BIM get used on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYMOND Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 ...... the good old "No true Scot..." fallacy in logic and argumentation. You should look it up. sorry, but I do not believe architects wrote ArchiCAD they were of course consultants just like the other software. what is true that professional code writers were asking what architects wanted... which isn't unque. I would like to see this disproven.. r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 like the user driven open beta process mcneel uses? I never heard of archicad contacting architects for this input or vise versa but that does not mean it has not been something that may have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Why do the architects have to be the consultants? ...why couldn't the coders be the consultants to the architects? The concept and big ideas of what the software does could have been designed by architects, but then the nitty gritty of coding could have been outsourced or a partnership. You know, similar to how many of us work with architects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 sorry, but I do not believe architects wrote ArchiCAD they were of course consultants just like the other software. what is true that professional code writers were asking what architects wanted... which isn't unque. I would like to see this disproven.. r ....how would you even know that? (that no "real" architects were actually involved in the design of the software), especially with the conviction you seem to be exhibiting? I probably neglected to read the part wherein you mentioned just how deeply involved, you personally were in ArchiCAD's development process, and as such were privy to all the "consultants" involved and their contribution. And besides which, who exactly claimed that they "wrote" ArchiCAD? There's a distinctive difference between writing a piece of software (which would imply coding) and DESIGNING the software. But then again, the whole point is moot, since in your world, or as you seem to be implying, there can't possibly anyone anywhere in this planet who would happen to have both an architectural education or architectural professional knowledge, and also just happen to know a thing or 2 about software coding. I mean, that would be just be simply outrageous. Right? right. Lastly, why in the world does it even matter whether or not you believe, what you believe about it (..... or want to believe, ......or have chosen to believe....; whatever the case may be). Particularly, since you've already made up your mind about it, (based on nothing more than mere idle conjecture, and no real evidence). Hint: you can't ask people to disprove to you what you didn't actually prove in the first place (i.e. that ArchiCAD wasn't actually designed by architects). That would be like me asking you to disprove to me, my claim that little invisible green alien gnomes steal people's socks and underpants, when they're not looking - when my only basis for making such a claim in the first place, is that I "believe" it to be so. I think in such a case you would call me crazy; and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M. Gruhn Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Can you afford to spend some time working with them and a typical project from your firm? If it's a "hey, do this in your spare time give us a decision in a week" thing then I mock your managers. But if you can say "hey, let me try to get the Smith Building in to each of them. Take a month or two" that would be nice. And maybe luxurious. It is a huge decision and many dollars do ride on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYMOND Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 All developers have beta users and input from their intended users. the education and expertise for code writing is quite extensive... especially in the graphics applications.. to put architects on par with this is almost impossible... naturally their input is critical... example being the common "wish list" I am just cannot accept the idea that ArchiCAD is written by architects...designing ArchiCAD by architects would have to be at the Beta level..as is all the CAD software... so ArchiCAD has nothing over anybody else in this area. enjoying the fireworks BTW r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 All developers have beta users and input from their intended users. the education and expertise for code writing is quite extensive... especially in the graphics applications.. to put architects on par with this is almost impossible... naturally their input is critical... example being the common "wish list" I am just cannot accept the idea that ArchiCAD is written by architects...designing ArchiCAD by architects would have to be at the Beta level..as is all the CAD software... so ArchiCAD has nothing over anybody else in this area. enjoying the fireworks BTW r I still don't see where the words "written" have been used. The term that they promote on their site is "designed." Which architects very well could have done in my opinion. In architecture, there are designers that determine the concept, shape, look, traffic flow, user experience, etc... Then, there are typically a second set of architect that do design development, and make these elements work together, and come together as a building. Then comes the engineers to make sure that the building can stand, meets codes, etc... Then comes the contractors who assemble the building, and put it together, and create the finished product. So at the end of the day, when you have a finished building, the original designer is given credit for designing it, even though they have no idea how the plumbing, electricity, structural formulas, etc... They don't manage the engineers, they don't manage the contractors, or the sub contractors. They simply had the initial idea of how the project should look, and how the project should work. After the initial idea is developed, then skilled contractors are hired at every level to see the idea through to fruition. I am kind of talking out my ass here, because I have no knowledge of ArchiCad. In fact I have never even used it, I am only arguing that it is very possible that an architect said, Hey, it would be really swell if we had a piece of software that was able to have parametric data, and able to have all the specs and codes attached to the geometry so I don't have to spend all of my time inputting this information by hand. Maybe they thought that was a really good idea, so they start assembling a team of talented coders, talented interface designers, etc... to begin assembling this new piece of software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYMOND Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 well i would certainly agree with that... I have heard the phrase tho.. "ArchiCAD is the only software written by architects" or even you use "designed by" notion... designed or consulted by is probably a more appropriate.. but I don't think this pharse is accurate as a means of conveying the idea the Architect is above all others in this... we have to look at its features and useability... actually who cares who wrote it... its the merit of the program is what matters.. I probably would not use ArchiCAD for the reason its not as popular and generically used as Revit... most of the consultants we go to also use Revit... so we want to blend in with them. r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bricklyne Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 ...... I am just cannot accept the idea that ArchiCAD is written by architects...designing ArchiCAD by architects would have to be at the Beta level..as is all the CAD software... so ArchiCAD has nothing over anybody else in this area. r ...again, where are you getting your information from? Where you involved in the development process of the program; so as to be able to unequivocally and categorically state that NO architects at all (by whatever definition you chose to define what a "real" architect is) were involved in the actual development process? You seem to be adamantly determined to believe that architects are incapable of having skills, or learning skills in professions that extend beyond their own. And no, no one is actually referring to Beta-testing as being part of the definition of designing the software. .....and if this is what your basing your argument on..... ...I have heard the phrase tho.. "ArchiCAD is the only software written by architects" ....... ........that's what's known in a court of law as 'hearsay'. Meaning that the person introducing it got the information as secondhand information from an unaccounted for source, and worse yet, didn't even bother to check the veracity or accuracy of the statement (or in this particular case, whether the actual phrase itself is quoted correctly {'written' vs. 'designed'??} to begin with let alone being true at all) before he brought it up. Typically not the best foundations upon which to base your arguments. .. actually who cares who wrote it... its the merit of the program is what matters.. .......actually, if memory serves correctly, I think it was YOU that brought it up to begin with, and made a big issue out of 'who wrote the software'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 http://www.mortenson.com/files/Entering%20the%20Brave%20New%20World.pdf BIM and contracts, from a AIA meeting I was at at lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYMOND Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 http://www.mortenson.com/files/Entering%20the%20Brave%20New%20World.pdf BIM and contracts, from a AIA meeting I was at at lunch. read the artical... pretty deep in the issues.. like reading a doctorite thesis.... worth it tho thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antisthenes Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 (edited) u r welcome, it helps us all to understand how to best contract with BIM. There are new Consensus and AIA contract documents too. http://www.consensusdocs.org/ AIA 3.5 Release: Building Information Modeling (BIM) exhibit, two new Integrated Project Delivery (IPD) agreements, two new Design-Build agreements and a Scope of Services document Edited November 21, 2008 by Antisthenes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
own1221 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Clarence Bricklyne - you argue too much, pls get back to the Revit vs Archicad discussion which this thread is about. Maybe start by saying which software do you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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