General discussion On the Best way to create glazed triangulated roof structures

[THINKTANK]

Hi Guys

 

I've searched through the forums for an answer to my question of "How can I create an accurately triangulated structure quickly from a simple Meshed shape", unfortunately I've had no such luck.

 

If you still don't know what I'm on about I basically mean this:

 

 

 

There are a few methods I have tried in the past, with some degree of success, but in the end it just takes to long. I use ADT, 3D MAX 2009 and VRAY 1.5SP2

 

Is there a script / Plug-in that with a touch of a button transforms my boring mesh in to an accurate triangulated mesh? can it give me options to set how big I want the size of the triangles to be, is there more than just one shape to choose from, Frame settings etc....

 

If anyone has heard of such things please let me know, or if you know of a quicker "more reliable" method.

 

Regards

 

A

Edited October 27, 2008 by THINKTANK

[SandmanNinja]

Wonder if PolyBoost would do it?

[THINKTANK]

Hi SandmanNinja

 

Thanks for the reply back, PolyBoost does seem like a cool little add-on to max, unfortunately I don't think it will do the job the way I need it to. (No control on shape type and it doesn't apply it self evenly to the entire mesh, it relies on the polygon topology).

 

Cheers

[IceAged]

One of my favourite architectural features in the world... a perfect combination of 4000 year old statues, classical architecture and the cutting edge glass roof that you are trying to replicate. If it's of any help, the architects, (Foster and Partners), use Microstation for their 2D plans and 3D models.

 

In principal, all 3D geometry is built of triangles anyway, so you're off to a good start. Think in 2D to begin with. You only need to create a square plane, subdivide it according to how many panes of glass you are dealing with, apply an edit poly, select all vertices and use the connect feature to show those triangles, (if you look at edit tri you'll see that they're already there by default, but hidden).

 

Use soft selection to pull the centre into position... remove smoothing from all the polys, and you should have a pretty good mesh to begin with. Of course, this is only a starting point, and there might well be a better way, but it should at least point you in the right direction.

[Nic H]

select all edges in edit poly

create shape from selection

renderable spline / sweep modifier

edit poly

bevel chamfer etc

render

 

there are heaps of ways to do it it depends on the specfics and exactly what you want it to look like / level of detail

[THINKTANK]

One of my favourite architectural features in the world... a perfect combination of 4000 year old statues, classical architecture and the cutting edge glass roof that you are trying to replicate. If it's of any help, the architects, (Foster and Partners), use Microstation for their 2D plans and 3D models.

 

In principal, all 3D geometry is built of triangles anyway, so you're off to a good start. Think in 2D to begin with. You only need to create a square plane, subdivide it according to how many panes of glass you are dealing with, apply an edit poly, select all vertices and use the connect feature to show those triangles, (if you look at edit tri you'll see that they're already there by default, but hidden).

 

Use soft selection to pull the centre into position... remove smoothing from all the polys, and you should have a pretty good mesh to begin with. Of course, this is only a starting point, and there might well be a better way, but it should at least point you in the right direction.

Hi IceAged

 

I see what your saying, but that in turn doesn't give me an accurate frame solution, the Fosters Roof is actually fairly simple to recreate as it's fairly generic in Mass, But in the firm I'm working at I have many different Mass's and we would like to apply the Triangulated effect to the different mass's quickly, I want to be able to pull a shape around in MAX, (solid shape) and then click a button that asks me how big and what type of pattern I want applied the mesh it self, accurately and evenly through out the Entire mesh, with out relying on the topology it self. If I Had to reply on the topology it self I've defeated the object of what I was trying to do by saving time. If you see what I'm saying :-)

 

Thanks for the reply though.

[THINKTANK]

Maybe I haven't been as clear as I thought lol...See below, The Mesh started off as a Plane, with 'X' many divisions, save 50x50.

 

It then got converted to an editable Poly where I would then pull it around like no tomorrow to a shape that an architect or my self was happy with.

 

Then I can tessellate it or I could extrude up a bunch of triangles, either way, it would result in an un-even mesh, with stretched triangles, I'm trying at achieve a 'perfect' consistency of triangles.

 

I know Fosters Roof actually complies of different shaped triangles, but this isn't what I want right now. (I want something similar to White City in Sheppard's Bush (see below).

 

This should be an interesting project to solve lol.

 

 

[Trevor Tizard]

I made a plane and subdivided as you have. Moved vertices in the z axis as required. Duplicated the mesh as a copy with a shell modifier for glass. Added a lattice modifier to the other mesh for the frames.

[THINKTANK]

Thanks for your reply Trevor Tizard

 

I can make a Frame and glazing fine, what I'm asking is how do I get FIXED Triangular shapes to go round some massing, so the Triangle doesn't deform to a stretched version etc....

 

I've made some progress I think, I've researched some other projects in our archives and it seems that the Norm way is to build the triangles in Max, (As editable Splines) copy them round to make a Huge pattern, Weld the Vertexes together, and then using the soft selection toll to drag them up the Z-axis to your hearts content.

 

This doesn't fix the problem I'm having but Unless a better solution comes in I guess I'm going to have to go with this way.

 

Any more suggestions though Would be great!

 

Cheers

[Antisthenes]

paneling tools?

 

http://en.wiki.mcneel.com/default.aspx/McNeel/PanelingTools.html

[mattclinch]

to get the level of precision it seems you are after you'll need to look at some parametric modelling solutions.

 

i'm not entirely convinced that the form you are trying to achieve can be made with only regular fixed triangles - a geodesic dome and a plane are the forms to be made using regular triangles to my knowledge, but i'd be interested to see if this is right.

[PAWUK]

Just on my way out of the office and spotted this post in the scrips section by quizzy ,Not sure if this is what your after havnt had time to look properley.

 

http://www.reformstudios.com/maxscript/maxscript-curtainwall-wizard

[THINKTANK]

Antisthenes

 

That looks like exactly what I need! Just downloaded and will give it ago, luckily we have Rhino too!

 

PAWUK

 

Great Find too! Not sure if I want to use it though as we tend to bring the line work into CAD after to give it structural Members etc... But if were in a rush we just use MAX so that's great! Cheers :-)

 

I'll post my results.

[THINKTANK]

Hi Guys, I've given up (not completely) on trying to get a 100% accurate grid across a mesh, I have how ever come to the conclusion that if you apply an extrude grid system of lets say square or triangles, and apply it to a 3-5 meter height difference in mesh you don't get to much of a distortion in the shapes, see below:

 

[FlytE]

lattice modifier?

[THINKTANK]

FlytE

 

No, Since the mesh was made from objects being boolean'd out of it (I did this twice so i had the Frame on one and the glass on another) this was all made from Nurbs, then I extruded the Frame to the desired length and also added a shell Mod to the glass for thickness. This i might add wasn't the most friendly method for poly count! Although the method is quick to produce. so as long as i have a back up of the Nurbs object, I can do multiple versions very quickly.

 

1) I made the original Grid shapes in CAD so that was at least accurate

2) Brought the grid into Max and extruded it up lots

3) created my actual roof massing (From sections lines i received from the architects and used Nurbs

4)Boolen'd the extruded grid out of my roof mesh (Also did another so i go both side of the coin sort of speak...)

5)Extruded the framing

6)Added a shell Mod to the Glass for thickness

 

I Might see if i can get line work from the mesh so i can then use the "Sweep" Mod for them frame so i can get better looking profiles on it.

[Tedrux]

Hi,

Just a quick thought that may need some experimenting...

Try a curve based system such as patches or nurbs.

Take a patch grid and curve it using the handles to somewhere near. I suppose you could set up some dummys or even columns in the correct places to snap too. Then try messing with it by boosting the amound of facets each way. You could use the tri-patches method to get triangles. It should devide the segments evenly both ways as it is 'parametric' (i think).

Wither way, you should be going for a mathermatical method of deviding the segments rather than using polygons as this is manual. Both patches and nurbs are devided mathematically by the computer. i am no expert, but the concept is sound...

Ted

[Tedrux]

Your example looks quite convincing!

Ted