Outsourcing, what do you guys think about it?

[ArtDesign3D]

Hello everyone, newbie here!

 

My name is Isabel and I work for this ArchViz company in Uruguay - LatinAmerica called ArtDesign3D. Our main focus of business are companies who outsource their work to us. We've been working this way with companies from Spain, Mexico and Panama for almost 2 years now and have reached out to several companies in the US with very positive feedbacks

 

The reason I've joined this forum is to see what is the general idea about outsourcing, like do you think less of a aompany if they outsource they work? Is outsourcing a positive feature for a company?

 

Also, I've joined here to learn and get tips from you guys about outsourcing. I think we are doing pretty good but there's always better ways to approach pple I think!

 

Thanks a lot for reading!

[AJLynn]

Welcome to CGArchitect. Enjoy your can of worms.

[jtaddei]

perhaps the answer to your question could be found by asking yourself the following:

 

"What is your opinion of a company that typically sends its work to you finding a cheaper option to use?"

 

Oh by the way if it's not clear enough, the above question will lead to you losing work and have to face financial hardship.

 

Honestly what kind of answer did you expect?

[BillyElNino]

A lot of Architectural Practices outsource their 3D work but what some people have a problem with is that they choose to send it abroad. If a foreign company can provide the same end product for less money then I say go for it! Rather than concentrate on trying to convince people that chinese / indian / latin american outsourcing companies are the devils work these individuals should think about whats wrong with their own business that drives their clients abroad. If its too hot in the kitchen, you know what they say!

 

There are associated difficulties with this process but I think if a foreign outsourcing company can nail down and address these issues (as well as contact and convince an architectural practice that this is the case) then they can be on to a real winner. It's about money before its about relationships and all the other associated hoo ha!

[kippu]

wow its only been 2 months since the last outsourcing topic ...welcome to the forums

[BillyElNino]

wow its only been 2 months since the last outsourcing topic ...welcome to the forums

 

That's slower than the 'how much shall I charge?' thread coming around again!

[nycL45]

From your lengthy comments above I have a couple of questions for BillyElNino:

/ CG for you is a hobby?

/ Are you single and still live with your parents?

 

IMHO, anyone trying to pay rent/mortgage payments, put food on the table for their family, pay the energy bills, keep the kids clothed, pay taxes, pay repair bills on the family car, buy a birthday gift, ALL of which are not controlled by the person trying to make a living at cg, and trying to save for the future or to help put their children through college, out sourcing is a threat.

 

$.02, ka ching!

[innerdream]

Keeping my mouth shut.

[Inxa]

wow another thread. Welcome spammers.

 

I think these topics should go in to the sticky section or faq section.

 

 

and by the way, welcome to cga.

[BillyElNino]

From your lengthy comments above I have a couple of questions for BillyElNino:

/ CG for you is a hobby?

/ Are you single and still live with your parents?

 

IMHO, anyone trying to pay rent/mortgage payments, put food on the table for their family, pay the energy bills, keep the kids clothed, pay taxes, pay repair bills on the family car, buy a birthday gift, ALL of which are not controlled by the person trying to make a living at cg, and trying to save for the future or to help put their children through college, out sourcing is a threat.

 

$.02, ka ching!

 

I am full time employed in CG, I am not single and I have a mortgage. Outsourcing is competition, and only a threat like any competition can be. The areas where outsourcing companies are failing is where you capitalize. Very few of them, in my experience none that I have come across, have been able to successfully market themselves in a way that maximises the massively lower cost benefits they can offer. Language issues, time differences, hassle, differences in construction styles and materials, risk, xenophobia, all play a part in this. Most practices value the professional relationship that can be established with a visualiser who can come into the office and discuss a project and work within the team to get a project done.

 

There's nothing productive in moaning about these companies that can produce the same image at a lower cost. It's surely a better idea to concentrate on how you can continue to operate within a market that contains this element and work out why someone should come to you first.

[nycL45]

Nice theory. You can market it, but you cannot convert that into actual/real costs to demonstrate how your services will be less costly than out sourcing. Out sourcing = less cost and it is working every day.

 

An interesting approach recently posited here was kind of a sharing-the-pie or "How I learned to love out sourcing." elixir: out source modeling and do the lighting and materials at home. I would like to know how that is working or if it is spreading.

[Charles Leo]

Well, one can't say that they are not tempted due to lower costs.

 

However, this raises several issues one must be concerned about also. Just yesterday I was approached for Lunarstudio to outsource work. In going through this person's attached images, I noticed one of my own.

 

I made a thread here with details in the general section but I believe it may have been deleted - as to why, I'm not quite sure but I have written CGArchitect and am awaiting a reply.

 

The point is, you don't know who you're sending your work to. You don't know what quality you will get out of this. You also lose potential legal backing if someone in a different country screws up your project. The other thing that could potentially happen is that same person you're going through outsources it to another person. There's also a communication barrier which may arise.

 

While I have been tempted in the past, I've also been very reluctant to do so. My clients come first and I want to ensure that they receive the best service and quality available. The only way I can truly be self-assured is to try to keep this work in-house or with people within my own country where the law has some reach.

[BillyElNino]

An interesting approach recently posited here was kind of a sharing-the-pie or "How I learned to love out sourcing." elixir: out source modeling and do the lighting and materials at home. I would like to know how that is working or if it is spreading.

 

'Keep your friends close but your enemies closer'. I like it!

 

The point is, you don't know who you're sending your work to. You don't know what quality you will get out of this. You also lose potential legal backing if someone in a different country screws up your project. The other thing that could potentially happen is that same person you're going through outsources it to another person. There's also a communication barrier which may arise.

 

While I have been tempted in the past, I've also been very reluctant to do so. My clients come first and I want to ensure that they receive the best service and quality available. The only way I can truly be self-assured is to try to keep this work in-house or with people within my own country where the law has some reach.

 

These are exactly the kind of issues that a lot of outsourcing companies are failing to address. If they could they would be far more of a threat to our livelihood. Most of these points are risks and perception rather than reality but that does not make them any less valid as reasons for sticking with what you know at home. I'm sure it would be more than possible to establish an excellent ongoing relationship with a company based in India / China / Russia but that initial plunge has an inherent risk. I also think that Visualisation does not add up to much percentage wise on a construction project so the savings, while big on an animation or image basis overall mean very little.

[Charles Leo]

I get several resumes every day. I also get propositioned to outsource work by someone different at least 3 times a day for the past several years.

 

I see stolen work/images all the time.

 

Billy, this is NOT a 'perception' as you have stated. It does happen and it is a fact. Not in every case, but return quality and theft is something to seriously consider before going down that route.

[ArtDesign3D]

Ok so no more contacting 3D compaines, checked.

 

Thanks for the advices guys.

 

I didn't came in here to spam btw, I didn't know you already had a topic about this issue. And of course I wasn't expecting a positive answer, I just wanted some advice. Besides, if working this way has helped us a lot (we only work inside Uruguay) and clients like what we do, where's the harm in that?

[BillyElNino]

I see stolen work/images all the time.

 

Billy, this is NOT a 'perception' as you have stated. It does happen and it is a fact. Not in every case, but return quality and theft is something to seriously consider before going down that route.

 

This is anecdotal evidence aggravated by recent events for you. The important part is how you procure the services of an outsourcer. If you go via a spam email then the outcome is more likely to be dubious.

 

Its unfair to taint every viz studio with the same brush and the problems that arose for you could happen if you went to the studio down the road for help. There must be thousands of companies outside of your own country who you could outsource to and, like any business, there will be a percentage of cowboys.

[AJLynn]

Ok so no more contacting 3D compaines, checked.

 

Thanks for the advices guys.

 

I didn't came in here to spam btw, I didn't know you already had a topic about this issue. And of course I wasn't expecting a positive answer, I just wanted some advice. Besides, if working this way has helped us a lot (we only work inside Uruguay) and clients like what we do, where's the harm in that?

 

I don't think the lesson here is "don't try to do business with people" but rather that you will do best if you approach the problem with the understanding that there are these issues, some of them quite contentious. I don't know how what you've seen would affect your business model but don't give up so quickly on finding business partners.

[Ky Lane]

Clients who's primary drive for using an outsource company is price - I say enjoy your cheap rendering! You get what you pay for these days!

[BillyElNino]

Clients who's primary drive for using an outsource company is price - I say enjoy your cheap rendering! You get what you pay for these days!

 

Its their economy that dictates their cheap prices, not their skill level.

[Ky Lane]

Its their economy that dictates their cheap prices, not their skill level.

 

I speak from my part of the world, in which quality is paramount.

[BillyElNino]

I speak from my part of the world, in which quality is paramount.

 

Hmmmm... I think quality is important to people outside of your part of the world too...

 

I'm just saying that with the same software and experience guys in China / India / Russia / South America / Australia can produce work to the same high standard but because of economic issues, cost of living etc they are able to charge significantly less. This 'cheap render' is not cheap because its rubbish. You'd have to agree with that? If not I'm sure a lot of people from these regions would have something to say! (thats a call to arms to the legions of quality renderers out there from outside the US or Europe!)

[leoA4D]

+1

 

These people *are* producing the quality and *on time* because the clients are demanding quality and reliable service. The only difference is the substantially lower costs they contend with and being able to pass cost savings on to the customer. Our cost of living expenses make being competitive impossible.

[ArtDesign3D]

Its their economy that dictates their cheap prices, not their skill level.

 

Thank you!!

[WAcky]

I speak from my part of the world, in which quality is paramount.

 

I disagree. I have trouble convincing developers that a good rendering is worth it. All they say is "yeah I've a guy that does them for $150".

 

And then I see these $150 renders.

 

Then I hurl.

[Charles Leo]

This is anecdotal evidence aggravated by recent events for you.

 

You are accusative and wrong. I suggest you change your assumptive tone for your own benefit.

 

My recent post in the 'Stolen Images' general thread may lead you to believe have influenced my perceptions but in fact they haven't changed for all the years I've been creating art. However, the incident was a 'first' time for me in the sense that someone used my own image to ask for outsourcing. It was an unusual situation.

 

The fact is this isn't the first time I've seen applicants use stolen images. I've been doing this for many years. Today alone, I received four resumes - while I may not have the time or resources to respond to all of them I always take the time to look at their images and usually notice when something looks familiar - most of the time I write someone in private saying, 'hey this person is using your image' and let them handle things on their own. And when you receive that high volume of applicants and companies looking for outsourcing, you do see stolen images quite frequently.

 

My whole point was that you have to be very careful who you work with. You sometimes get what you pay for.