amer abidi Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hey peeps.. Me and my big mouth told my boss that id give him his shot in a 'night scene' since he wanted that extra 'WOW' factor.. thing is, foot in mouth, its still looking too 'CG' IMO. its still very much work in progress in all aspects, but im a bit worried as to i dont have much experience with vray night scenes. At the moment ive got a half multiplied HDRI environment map, and a bunch of attenuated omnis and vray lights.. with vray properties GI settings enhancements for self illuminated windows and such. Im going to leave lighting and work on landscaping for a bit hoping some of you advanced vray users (or even general nightview enthusiasts) could give me some pointers as to whats wrong with image.. how to proceed..tips.. etc. been looking at this for too long now, need a second oppinion.. apart from that the ground is too bright, which i am aware of thanks in advance. amer [ATTACH]29837[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 That looks like a lot of work! The model and layout for trees etc. looks good. My advice would be turn off all the lights and get the hdri illuminating the scene in a convincing way so that you can see the project clearly then turn on the lights and adjust to taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horhe Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Nice work on the model Amer. What you need here IMO is some PS retouch. The sky looks a bit dull IMO. Perphaps a soft layer blending would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasondutoit Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hi Amer! The model looks good...must've been interesting to build! The first thing that I noticed was that there are too many 'daylight' shadows in the foreground of the image for the trees and people. Because of the multitude of light sources you'll have in a night time enviroment, the shadows will generally be alot softer and diffused. It looks as if you've still got some type of sunlight affecting the scene? As suggested before, first start with your HDRI in terms of lighting, and once that looks right (think of a full moon illuminating a night scene), then move on to doing test renders with your other lights on. I quite like the lights you've got illuminating the building already, so you're almost there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Hi Amer! The model looks good...must've been interesting to build! The first thing that I noticed was that there are too many 'daylight' shadows in the foreground of the image for the trees and people. Because of the multitude of light sources you'll have in a night time enviroment, the shadows will generally be alot softer and diffused. It looks as if you've still got some type of sunlight affecting the scene? As suggested before, first start with your HDRI in terms of lighting, and once that looks right (think of a full moon illuminating a night scene), then move on to doing test renders with your other lights on. I quite like the lights you've got illuminating the building already, so you're almost there! SO.. it turns out ive been working more 'scanline' approach than GI since i had, not ONE, but TWO hidden suns in my scene!! oh good i feel like a noob!!! I mean the shadows and the ground plane being so bright really baffled me, but i thought it was just an HDRI thing..turns out that even though both previous test suns were deleted, the sun targets had remained undeleted, and so kept on illuminating EVEN THOUGH both suns were deleted!! as gutten as i feel, i feel so much better now knowing at least that there was something wrong in the scene and not my lighting skills!! lolll.. thanks guys for your help.. im now tracing my steps back and redoing a big junk of the lighting based on my newly realized situation. I'll post an update tomorrow. thanks again =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Sher Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hi Amer, The way you are doing is one of the ways to go about it... Of course the problem with setting up a hundred lights is that you will be rendering more than you will be tweaking the lights to get it right and it is a very time consuming thing. Another way of doing is to brush lights in photoshop... Now i quickly put something together to show you a concept. Took me about 20 minutes and it is very rough but i think it will give you an idea of what i am talking about. If you have any queries i'll help you in more detail. Doing night scenes is one of my favored things and with a bit of imagination you can do awesome stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippu Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 damn arnold..thats a good one which brushes in photoshop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hi Amer, The way you are doing is one of the ways to go about it... Of course the problem with setting up a hundred lights is that you will be rendering more than you will be tweaking the lights to get it right and it is a very time consuming thing. Another way of doing is to brush lights in photoshop... Now i quickly put something together to show you a concept. Took me about 20 minutes and it is very rough but i think it will give you an idea of what i am talking about. If you have any queries i'll help you in more detail. Doing night scenes is one of my favored things and with a bit of imagination you can do awesome stuff... yeah, i see what you mean, but the thing is im totally crap at photoshop... and would much rather do most of the work in max (since its always a possibilitly to animate later). thanks for your help, i might just take you up on that offer.. as for now i've just restarted working on it and will post some eye candy soon. thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 still all max so far... im happy with the progress. whatcha thinks? any comments, suggestionds and ideas welcome:) [ATTACH]29853[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Sher Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Hi Amer, I think you are almost there... I think it needs a bit of punch to lift the whole picture as it is looking little bit flat... I took a liberty just enhancing couple of things and just painted some glows to add some strength to it... Hope you like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasondutoit Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 @Amer: looks much better! I guess the only thing that still bothers me a bit about the image is that the sky looks too light closer to the building...if it was that brightness there should be more ambient light coming from the sky than what there appears to be. @Arnold: I really like what you've done with the image in photoshop! When you mention that you've 'painted some glows', are you referring to the burn/dodge tool in photoshop? I'm like Amer in the sense that I tend to try and get as much right in Max before moving into photoshop, but looking at what you've done in such a short space of time I think some more work in post is a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Hi Amer, I think you are almost there... I think it needs a bit of punch to lift the whole picture as it is looking little bit flat... I took a liberty just enhancing couple of things and just painted some glows to add some strength to it... Hope you like it... k so ive been away for the weekend.. and didnt have time ot work on it, will resume tomorrow morning.. I like what youve done to some things, but think others are a bit too dramatic (like the red wall), but all in all i realize the power of photoshop, and have decided to get into .. so i ordered a couple of gnomon dvds just now could you give me any tips or pointers as to the workflow you took upon this image? which tools and settings do you focus on most with this kind of a treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadmunkey Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Arnold, I love that second image you edited - good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Here's my final draft.. think i might add a water element in the foreground paved area. [ATTACH]29895[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horhe Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 That lens flare is taking away more than bringing in to the image. The image is still blurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) Making progress! I think you're blowing out the geometry with the building lights, it's going to white and you're losing the forms. I think bringing up the overall scene light level first and then adjust the tree and building lights is the way to go. It looks like you're trying to get your overall light level from the tree and building lights still? Edited November 10, 2008 by innerdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 Making progress! I think you're blowing out the geometry with the building lights, it's going to white and you're losing the forms. I think bringing up the overall scene light level first and then adjust the tree and building lights is the way to go. It looks like you're trying to get your overall light level from the tree and building lights still? well the design is at a conceptual stage, so forms were intentionally blurred and made a bit less geometric. I thought it was good, and the people here at the office loved it. I really cant see what you mean.. i guess ive been looking at it for too long!! lemme go google some night scenes and try to find out what you guys mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 (edited) well the design is at a conceptual stage, so forms were intentionally blurred and made a bit less geometric. I thought it was good, and the people here at the office loved it. I really cant see what you mean.. i guess ive been looking at it for too long!! lemme go google some night scenes and try to find out what you guys mean. This is what I mean. The scene is illuminated and there are no interior lights on the buildings. Granted you will want to keep your exterior lights but the scene should stand up without them imo first, then when you add them in they don't have to be so bright that they blow out the detail. Edited November 10, 2008 by innerdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 yeah ok i got you, but i guess that wasnt the effect i was going for. Anyway, this project has been handed in, and everyone was very happy with it.. But i'm going to really get into night scene lighting. It's really fascinating, and a lot more than i bargained for! I admit i had underestimated it... reminds me a lot of the days of the scanline renderer. thanks to all of you who tried to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Looks good so far. But I think the glow at the top of the buildings is a bit much, you may want to tone down the light a bit, it's less light and more glow is the problem for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 yeah ok i got you, but i guess that wasnt the effect i was going for. Anyway, this project has been handed in, and everyone was very happy with it.. But i'm going to really get into night scene lighting. It's really fascinating, and a lot more than i bargained for! I admit i had underestimated it... reminds me a lot of the days of the scanline renderer. thanks to all of you who tried to help. Happy is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alias_marks Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 i agree, happy is good. So if you're done, congrats for taking on a new technique to lean something new and impress your superiors (and maybe yourself . always good to challenge yourself. However, if you were to continue to make this better, I would start by looking at a different camera angle. In general, I feel very distant from the actual building, and there's nothing in particular that is helping me to engage further into the image. Too much foreground in my opinion. This design looks like it has such a nice curve in the facade to be taken advantage of, but you've flattened it out with the angle you've chosen. This building really wants to be seen from above I think and have the curve draw the eye from one corner of the image into the vastness of the design beyond. To me there's also something off about the balance, like the whole image is sloping from top left to bottom right. I've done a lot of these too and usually call it a slippery slope perspective, leading the eye right off the side of the page Lighting is pretty decent, but I would agree with the lens flare comments... looking forward to the animation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 i agree, happy is good. So if you're done, congrats for taking on a new technique to lean something new and impress your superiors (and maybe yourself . always good to challenge yourself. However, if you were to continue to make this better, I would start by looking at a different camera angle. In general, I feel very distant from the actual building, and there's nothing in particular that is helping me to engage further into the image. Too much foreground in my opinion. This design looks like it has such a nice curve in the facade to be taken advantage of, but you've flattened it out with the angle you've chosen. This building really wants to be seen from above I think and have the curve draw the eye from one corner of the image into the vastness of the design beyond. To me there's also something off about the balance, like the whole image is sloping from top left to bottom right. I've done a lot of these too and usually call it a slippery slope perspective, leading the eye right off the side of the page Lighting is pretty decent, but I would agree with the lens flare comments... looking forward to the animation noted, understood and appreciated! will definitely reapproach this one and further animate once things cool down a bit here.. too hectic at the moment. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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