Exporting a model and reimporting not to scale

[majikstan]

Hello, I have an anoying little problem that I wish to have solved as soon as posible, relating to I have modeled a few items which I hadmodeled over background images afterwhich I scaled the models down to the correct size.

I then exported them later I decided to import them in and they imported over 10 times the proper scale.

Why is this happening and its only happening on some select items.

I have mostly been getting this only lately.

 

Another problem from time to time on some models when I export max tends to sometimes add an extra vertex over 100 feet awy etc or even a kilometer sort of thing yet the zoom feature won't zoom out after a limit.

 

Even some extra faces are added in particular accross round hols etc.

Why dose max do this and how do I ensure that what I export out will import back in at the same scale.

Please reply back as soon as posible thankyou.

[MegaPixel]

Any merged or imported objects in your scene that you have manually scaled will still remember their original scale until you apply the "Reset Xform" function to them which is found in the Utilities drop down. This is essentially a way of purging that memory from your objects. It's always a good idea when exporting a scene to apply the "Reset Xform" utility to all of your scene objects to keep that random sized import scenario from occuring.

 

Maybe someone else can better explain why the random sizes are occuring, but I think it has something to do with the original objects scale with respect to the Unit type it was created in and it's original point of origin.

 

As for your other questions, I don't know but I have experienced this "scene optimization" effect when exporting to .3ds with respect to circular holes becoming more octagonal in shape?

[majikstan]

Hello I have tried the reset xform and it has made it worse, for one it did not keep the scale the same that I had scaled to and now every part is overlapping in all diferent sizes a great big mess.

how do I export and guarantee that what I export will import back in at the right size the right scale.

The same size as I had exported it, how can I purge the original as modled scale out of every object and adopt the new correct scaled down size etc.

 

Remember I had modeled these from photo's then scaled them the models down to match the true size which is determined by setting a block at the corect overall dimensions.

I then scame my model till it fits to those dimensions setup with that block.

and then export, once happy with the scale.

Now when I go and import the model it shows up as if I had not even scaled the model down and so ends up over 20 times bigger than its suppose to be etc.

how do I remove its original scaling history and llet it adopt the new size and retain that in the exported model?

 

Please reply back as soon as posible thankyou.

[SandmanNinja]

Please reply back as soon as posible thankyou.

 

While polite by putting a thankyou at the end, I just thought I'd gently mention that people will respond as quickly as they can - no need to put that in, really.

 

Have you tried MERGING instead of IMPORTING?

I also GROUP my objects before merging.

[majikstan]

The thing is I do need to have these objects setup as ready to use items in a library that I have setup.

example handles and casters so I can import them in to a model I'm building.

 

And so merging won't work like that unless your bringing from another scene.

 

I'm essentually using re-userble componentry.

 

I am always polite and I don't normally use forums and so am so used to using email where I have been having to in most part add the reply as soon as possible thankyou remark.

 

Anyway I do hope to get this problem fixed I had to recently submit a set of my components to another client of mine that uses these also.

 

Thankyou

[majikstan]

Just to give you an example I have a part that is suppose to be 168mm in width which I have scaled down to match that size and export at that size.

 

However when I import the model it imports at over 4272mm wide instead and so is again over size.

Why Can't I export it at the size I scaled it too?

 

Thankyou I await your answer.

[SandmanNinja]

I have a collection / library of ready-made textured items - they are in their little 3ds files - and I merge each individual item/object that I need into my scene.

 

So if I need a toilet and towel rack, I merge them in from my library files.

 

They are set to the right scale and everything comes in fine.

[majikstan]

The thing is most items I model other than basic furniture items I am not supplied with any scale drawings and so I have to photograph the actual items and then I bring those photos into max setup as a background the typical sort of method and then I model the item, adjusting the scale to fit each component untill I have moeld the model which in the end may end up as being over 60 meters in size, might be a office chair, then I measure off the actual item for the overrall dimensions and creat a box, I set this box to the dimensions, and then select and group the model I scale it down till it fits the box.

I then export the item now to scale as a 3ds file.

sometime in particulary the latest ones when I go and import the item it apears back at the original size not what I had scaled it too.

and so have to rescale the model again in my scene to the right size.

 

This is my issue.

Since for one I cannot prepare the background reference to be exactly to scale since max does not give you enough ability to scale the background picture acurately.

otherwise I would have to get a few planes and texture those then try to line up those to scale hoping that the photos had not distorted.

when they map onto the planes.

 

I hope this helps you get a better idea of my reasons and the problem thanks.

[MegaPixel]

As far as tracing over a background picture goes, I usually open the image I'm referencing up and get its dimensions, then create a plane in MAX with those dimensions and map a basic background material to it. A quicker process then getting the Max background to work the way u want it.

 

I honestly don't know why you are having so much trouble with your object re-imports but there is nothing wrong with keeping and maintaining a .max file based library of components and merging them into your new scenes on demand - This is a typical way of doing it for many people. Exporting to .3ds or other is really for trying to get your files accrossed multiple modeling platforms.

 

One last thing, in addition to the Xform resets, make sure your geometry is all editable mesh and not editable poly. I've had trouble with meshes coming into Acrobat 3D where the editable poly's decided to get randomly scaled also.

 

You can try posting over in the Autodesk forums for answers to the random scaling issue if this keeps happening. I don't have anymore ideas about it.

Edited November 7, 2008 by MegaPixel

[majikstan]

Hello its been awhile since I last posted in here, however I am still getting this same problem thats driving me insane, in trying to work out why I can't get it to export and import correctly.

 

I have read many articles on RESET XFORM and they all tell you and by the way they explain seems it works fine but it may be ok if after you had modeled your item the first time, but it does not work if after exporting and you modify a 3ds file, it does not seem to work.

I have a table its suppose to be at 1200mm long I have metal componentry that at one time I modeled from photographs which were setup in the background in the original files I had scalled the components down to scale since the items been matched to the photos ended up over 38 meters in size, so I scaled them down to size to match a box I created to the right size.

I then exported the model out to a 3ds file.

When I tried to import the component into a scene it apears back at 38meters in size etc, and as other parts were modele from other photos or views I had scaled it several times to get it right prior to the export.

but sometimes I find some parts are over scalled and are not lined up in place instead they are off someware else in the scene at a different scale.

 

this for example even happened the other day too with a castor where the main mounting imported over size at about 3 meters in width while the rest of it was at the right scale.

 

Now another example is I have used a few components which somehow have exported correctly for once and build a certain shaped table which I then grouped and exported, this was suppose to be at 1200 in length it was but when importing into a new scen the whole take is over 34mm in size, why and how can I finally solve this problem?

 

It seems that often I am having to creat a box to the right size and rescale my models to scale again for every scene, quite anoying.

 

And remember I have tried the reset Xform tool many times, most times it seems to do nothing, to ensure that my models remain to scale to the correct size I have them prior to exporting etc.

even troublkes on models I had imorted and had to modify alittle, same thing they somehow don't remain the correct size when reexporting.

Why.

Please help me with this problem which needs to be solved as soon as possible, thankyou.

 

I need this issue solved for once and for all, thankyou

[majikstan]

Today I decided to go through and ensure everypart of this component was ungrouped then went through and performed the reset Xform function on every part, which actually reversed the faces abit and I then had to go and Normal them again to get the faces swapped again,

I did this all to every part then I grouped the model again and export it out.

"REMEMBER THIS IS ALL TOO SCALE" at this stage.

 

I saved the fixed file, or so I thought.

Opened a new scen imported the newly fixxed file as it should have been, and what do I get, no change to its proportions, I scale a box to the hieght its suppose to be so I can varify it and it did not work all that xform di was really nothing just swap faces thats all but you import it and something suppose to be 720mm tall is actually over 17meters tall from the import.

Why, how Can I purge this original scale data and have them import at the size I had exported them out at?

 

This is getting so anoying.

How do you get around this issue?

[Tommy Burns]

You probably have tried this but you haven't said anything about it

But when you import you are givin an option of converting units it's a tickbox. Have you tried this ticked and unticked?

[majikstan]

Hello I have tried the convert units checkbox, ticking and unticking, yet there is no difference at all.

One of these componets for example till imports in bigger than the scene.

 

There has to be something that will fix this I cannot blieve that there would not be afterall I have not heard anyone else on here having the same issue as such, so why and how can I fix this thankyou.

[majikstan]

Hello to all here, I was hoping to at the time get this issue solved however I stil have this anoying problem and its now even more so since I am now using max 2009.

Now almost everytime and its not only objects I have built from a drawing or photo then scaled down to size but even objects modeled accurately to size are not exporting at the size they are suppose to be.

Why is that not to mention how max now defaults to there new format suitble for auto cad as in the xb_ something format which it leads me to think that they have done nothing to correct the 3ds format and so have left it as is.

 

The other day for example I modeled a A4 paper tray and exported it to the correct size and yes I have tried the rest xform, it seems to not work as much as it had at times back in max 9.

And so when I imported my A4 paper tray into a scane it imported in bigger than the room, why is it like that why can't I ensure it will import or export correctly.

And I have to rely on the 3ds format since its compatible for even older versions like the one I have to use at home, since the computer at home is not as powerfull and older at home as I cannot aford to even save for a better one, anyway I even tried to setup max2009 it flashes the logo screen and then refuses to load anything else, no errors, back to the point here, Also 3ds means I can share some components with some of our client partners.

 

Tell me what else can I try to ensure that my components accesories scale correctly when they are exported / imported, since reset xform DOE'S NOT WORK as it seems anymore.

Currently every scene when I import many of these newer components I have create and scale a box the proportions of the componet then scale the component to match that box, this is time consuming anoying and not very acurate since the scaling happens in steps of something but I cannot work out how to stop it from stepping when scaling etc.

 

I have tried everything that I can think of with no success in solving this issue, which needs to be solved as son as possible.

 

And why is there this reset xform in it anyway since all my max 3 components are perfect, why did they change to this so inefficiant practice that does not work all the time and is worse in max 2009.

 

I hope someone has some idea that can help me so much, thanks.

[majikstan]

Does'nt anyone else have this problem, and how can you solve this, this is getting anoying, half my componentry is out of scale when importing yet they were to scale before I exported, why is that and why does max have to keep the original values of the saize the model originally was made at if it was built over a photo that was displayed bigger than the object then I scale the model down its ok then, I then reset the xform as instucted and then export out to 3ds.

When I import into a scane the object is 20 times the size its suppose to be, why?

I have even had this troubles when I modeled to scale if I had dimensions and the object was a simple model that could be built to the actual measurements it still most case won't export at the right size.

What can I do to ensure that my models I scale down or at least export at the size I exported them at and import into new scenes using that size rather than been randomly bigger by sometimes 20 or more times .

 

I have had paper trays import in bigger than a building, why and why if weveryone keeps saying use the reset xform and it does not fix it, what can I do?

 

I have to at the moment everytime I bring in a component scale a box to the size then scale down the imported object to match that box.

The only components of mine that have no troubles at all are the ones I modeled in the old max3 long ago.

Why is it that I cannot have models in 3ds format that would export at the size I had exported them at?

Max 3 as I remeber had no reset xform utility in it, so why does max 9 and max 2009 have to have this for ?

 

Surely someone can solve this and advise me on what I can do to guaranteer my models to be exported and imported at the correct sizes etc.

 

Please let me know as soon as posible thanks, this is just driving me up the wall with this problem thats so anoying.

[Tommy L]

You need to always work n the same scale, using a constant units setup. It also sounds like you use arbitrary scaling at the sub-object level when you are modeling. This is a bad idea, ou will get the -flying vertices issues you mentioned. Collapse your models to editable messhes then reset X-Form, collapse again. Until you address the world space units and wrk in a consistant manner you will experience these problems.

[majikstan]

Well i don't change the unit scale at all, and so don't understand why its causing theses dificulties, between two scenes both at the same setup, why does it effect that.

also as I have to many cases trace over photos for more complex parts, as templates I cannot scale the photos down and ensure they don't apear longer or shorter, so with that many cases the models are made large then I scale them down to the right size by matching them to a block that I scaled the right overal dimensions.

As the idea of texture a plane loses too much detail, when some component drawings I also trace are line drawings, many of the lines dispear.

 

So my issue is this how do I remove the old creation data from the models (Purge) so that the models will export at the scale I have scalled the models at and not end up returning to the 24 x bigger in some cases.

 

I never had these problems in the old 3ds max 3 so why did they change it for the later versions?

It just does not make any sence.

Also when I export out a model that springs back to the huge size,if I have exported it as grouped, the helper object actually is the only part that imports correctly while the model is imported 24 times bigger or what ever size, I have collapsed, x formed on the most problematic of models only to end up with still no luck in getting it to export and import corectly once I have scaled the model to the right size before exporting.

So where and how do I purge the data so it adopts the final data?

 

Like I said before never had problems like this in the old 3.

Regards David

[Tommy L]

Im getting a little lost reading your problem.

However, my answer is the same as a year ago. You need to work in a consistent world space. You are saying you cant scale photos? Surely Photos are the first thing you should scale as they are arbitrary objects.

BTW, scale tool is probably whats messing you up. Dont scale anything that has a modifier stack. Collapse to an edit poly first. Then scale. Then x-form reset, then collapse again.

 

Your units should be set up in your scene before you model anything and you should always use the same units (world space). You must also ensure your world units are sensibly proportioned to your operating units. If you have a problem like "the circle will not draw small enough and/or snapping problems", then you are working in a tiny unit and max's world unit cant integer between points (thats badly written but Im tired).

 

In that case, you should not have any issues with scale between files. You should certainly not have scaling as the last step in your flow. If you are using other peoples models then you will need a more flexible approach, but it really is all logical. Models do not 'spring back to huge size'. It is user error. It can be frustrating, but its a workflow issue you have to address and Im surprised you are still struggling with it a year on.