openstheway Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 HI folks , I think this is my first real post in this forum, I've been lurking around for a while. I've been working in the games industry for the past two years as a 3d modeller and texture artist. (Well mostly) Using 3ds max, photoshop and zbrush to name a few apps. Focusing mainly on environmental and props. I have an interest now that my current contract has come to an end and sadly not been renewed (Effects of the current money problems we are all facing !) in moving on to do arch vis work and was hopping you nice folks could give me some advise, should I go to uni (never have I'm all self taught and work based experience at the moment), just spent my time learning AutoCAD ? and go from there showing off my portfolio and work my way in that way. ???? Help please I'm based in the North East of the UK if that has any bearing on things, and can not real move any great distance due to family . Thanks James:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The architecture industry is being hit just as hard, so it may be hard to find new positions opening, but there are always some opportunities regardless of the climate if you look hard enough. If you are going to do arch viz, you'll definitely need a pretty good understanding of reading construction documents and drawings. Knowing AutoCAD is a great start, but an understanding of architecture will be important too. If you are talented and have a solid portfolio, even if you have no architectural work under your belt, that will be enough for most studios to guage your experience and talent. You should post some examples of your work here for feedback. You'll get a better idea if your artistic abilities will make up for your lack of architectural training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The architecture industry is being hit just as hard, so it may be hard to find new positions opening, but there are always some opportunities regardless of the climate if you look hard enough. If you are going to do arch viz, you'll definitely need a pretty good understanding of reading construction documents and drawings. Knowing AutoCAD is a great start, but an understanding of architecture will be important too. If you are talented and have a solid portfolio, even if you have no architectural work under your belt, that will be enough for most studios to guage your experience and talent. You should post some examples of your work here for feedback. You'll get a better idea if your artistic abilities will make up for your lack of architectural training. I completely agree, besides, its a great opportunity for you to widen your horizon in environmental design, even if you dont end up working in arch vis, your environmental design skills will soar through the roof! You dont have to go to uni in my oppinion, but definitely an autocad course and plenty of blueprint reading excercises. The idea here is not to use autocad for modelling, but rather to be able to READ and CROSS-REFERENCE drawings... afterwhich you import into max where it'll all be familiar ground for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 AutoCAD training will help, if you can afford it and going back to college will help you with the budget, then perhaps. If you really want to do arch cg, then just autocad will help you. If you're just desperately clawing at options, I wouldn't go this route. If you could relocate there seems to be a lot of work with the game development. If there was a way to really sub out work with out limits to location, I think it would help a great number of folks in our line of work. Can you to web, graphics, illustration, page layout work? Perhaps an ad agency, web design or media company would be a better fit for work. In a down economy, it seems everyone tends to market their services or products more to get sales and revenue up. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 You should "really" do your homework before you get into Archviz, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Tons of competition, no industry standard on pricing, 3rd world labor markets are tough to compete against and that's just the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankg813 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 InnerDream, I'm in no position to argue your point because I'm also trying to do my homework on ArchViz, but what you're saying can pretty much apply to any job in this global economy we live in. Whether it be web developement or any other IT related venture, you're going to compete. I have found though that if you're good...I mean REALLY GOOD, that one can leverage quality of service over contracts looking for the lowest bidder...which you might want to deal with in the first place. So I pose the question...what are the things that define what great service is in this business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 InnerDream, So I pose the question...what are the things that define what great service is in this business? That should be another thread. I think it may have been discussed here as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 You should "really" do your homework before you get into Archviz, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Tons of competition, no industry standard on pricing, 3rd world labor markets are tough to compete against and that's just the start. The difficulties are what make it fun for me. I believe that our industry has a big future and we have a chance to define what it will become. The main ingredient for us to decide whether or not to get into it is whether or not you love it. If you love what you do you will find a way to make money doing it. I will agree, however, that no one should get into it for a quick buck. This is clearly not the case with James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 InnerDream, So I pose the question...what are the things that define what great service is in this business? Great service is an average of many things. Among them are quality, speed, process, price, reliability, etc. Different clients value different things, so you should balance them accordingly. This is very difficult, but I do agree that in the long run "quality of service" will give you a competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 The difficulties are what make it fun for me. I believe that our industry has a big future and we have a chance to define what it will become. The main ingredient for us to decide whether or not to get into it is whether or not you love it. If you love what you do you will find a way to make money doing it. I will agree, however, that no one should get into it for a quick buck. This is clearly not the case with James. I can't agree. I have been in the Architectural field for 30 years now and it continues to get more difficult every year to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I can't agree. I have been in the Architectural field for 30 years now and it continues to get more difficult every year to make money. That's perfectly fine. It's healthy to disagree. My opinions might be wrong and I do understand your frustration. But, correct me if I'm wrong, arch viz wasn't around 30 years ago. It's an industry that didn't really take off until the 90's. I would guess that it's barely 15 years old. Our industry is young, but it's not going to suddenly disappear. However, it will continue to change from what we understand it to be today. Architecture, on the other hand, has been around for centuries. It also will not disappear anytime soon and the way we practice it will change further. I am sure that architects always found a way to make a profit in the face of change. Likewise, visualizers will also find a way to remain profitable and flourish. The trick is to be willing and able to adapt. James seems to be one of the willing. I would advise him to keep assessing the industry and try networking with as many people as possible. He might eventually find a great opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 That's perfectly fine. It's healthy to disagree. My opinions might be wrong and I do understand your frustration. But, correct me if I'm wrong, arch viz wasn't around 30 years ago. It's an industry that didn't really take off until the 90's. I would guess that it's barely 15 years old. Our industry is young, but it's not going to suddenly disappear. However, it will continue to change from what we understand it to be today. Architecture, on the other hand, has been around for centuries. It also will not disappear anytime soon and the way we practice it will change further. I am sure that architects always found a way to make a profit in the face of change. Likewise, visualizers will also find a way to remain profitable and flourish. The trick is to be willing and able to adapt. James seems to be one of the willing. I would advise him to keep assessing the industry and try networking with as many people as possible. He might eventually find a great opportunity. I worked at Gensler twenty years ago and we had a full time Archviz guy but that's not my point. Here's something to think about. I was approached by a potential client to do a project. They wanted me to design the building from a floor plan, build the 3d model and do a rendering for $1,000.00 US. I would have no ownership of the design either. As long as there is someone willing to do this kind of work which I'm sure there is this business is in trouble. People are whores and they are selling out the profession, both Architects and Archviz professionals. I will leave this topic by saying one more time, do your homework before you get into this business and know what you face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 People are whores and they are selling out the profession... Prostitution is also the world's oldest profession. So, I bet the problem you are referring to is not new. I would not argue the point that at some levels of our market the competition is fierce and clients are abusive. I experience that all the time. But, you can rise above it and focus your time mostly on the good clients that pay well. Yes. Good clients do exist and for their prized projects they will never select a less qualified competitor. It's not always doom and gloom in our business. You need to be able to take the good with the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Prostitution is also the world's oldest profession. So, I bet the problem you are referring to is not new. I would not argue the point that at some levels of our market the competition is fierce and clients are abusive. I experience that all the time. But, you can rise above it and focus your time mostly on the good clients that pay well. Yes. Good clients do exist and for their prized projects they will never select a less qualified competitor. It's not always doom and gloom in our business. You need to be able to take the good with the bad. I know for a fact that Gensler selects firms based on price more often than quality. Many of my friends are VP's there and they warned me not to go down this road. They continue to try and bring value to their clients and if a guy in a 3rd world country will give them a good job for a lower price they will consider that as a first option. I think your business Eddie is one of the few exceptions and you've done a great job, I commend you and your talented team. But I do think you're the exception not the rule. Edited November 13, 2008 by innerdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I know for a fact that Gensler selects firms based on price more often than quality. I agree. It's been tough landing work from Gensler. They are very price conscious, but we have been able to get a few projects. Usually it's large scale last minute work that they can't find anyone else to do. I think your business Eddie is one of the few exceptions and you've done a great job, I commend you and your talented team. But I do think you're the exception not the rule. Thanks! Maybe I'm naive to think that anyone can do the same. I just know that even in bad times there is still a lot of work out there and no matter how cheap the overseas companies can be, you can always give your local clients higher value and better service. Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing with you that getting into arch viz now would be very tough. I think getting into many things right now would be tough. It's a horrible employment market. I just think that with the right approach and a lot of hard work it could be possible to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I agree. It's been tough landing work from Gensler. They are very price conscious, but we have been able to get a few projects. Usually it's large scale last minute work that they can't find anyone else to do. Thanks! Maybe I'm naive to think that anyone can do the same. I just know that even in bad times there is still a lot of work out there and no matter how cheap the overseas companies can be, you can always give your local clients higher value and better service. Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing with you that getting into arch viz now would be very tough. I think getting into many things right now would be tough. It's a horrible employment market. I just think that with the right approach and a lot of hard work it could be possible to succeed. This is a good exchange and the original poster will get to see things from both sides. Our perspectives are polar opposite at the moment and somewhere in the middle lies the truth. I'm half kidding and half serious. Get involved in Archviz if your passion lies in the field but know going in there are far easier ways to make a living. I'm looking for one as we speak, LOL. All the best to everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankg813 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I work mainly in the web development area...and when it gets slow (production wise) we utilize the time to 're-tool' and add to our arsenal. This along with ramping up our network and marketing efforts. Anything to put ourselves in prime position when things start picking up. Since I'm just starting out, for me, I see this as an opportune time to educate myself and work on the skills needed to excel in this business. Currently I'm not reliant on Arch Vis for income so I don't have the pressures that you all have, but I do know that work done by members of this forum really inspires me to move forward. It's tempting to over analyze and there will always be positives and negatives. But somehow or another we all find a way if we really want it bad enough. I don't ever want to say that I did not at least give it my best shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Get involved in Archviz if your passion lies in the field but know going in there are far easier ways to make a living. Lol...I agree. It's been a very nice discussion When I started my architectural studies the first book I read was "Architect? A Candid Guide to the Profession". It was a blunt view of architecture that gave a similar conclusion to yours. Don't get into architecture for the money. It is the least rewarding of all the professional careers. I guess I ignored the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 My very first job was with Albert C. Martin they "were" the premiere Los Angeles A&E firm. The design director, my boss was David Martin, he was rich by birth. I truly believe it is a profession for the rich to pass their days and for other's it's a a jail term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankg813 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 If nothing else I've learned this is clearly not for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openstheway Posted December 7, 2008 Author Share Posted December 7, 2008 Thanks you for all , your views , I've been busy the past few weeks, and haven't had time to post back here. Working on web design and logo designs as a freelancer. I have been reading heavly on and around the area and will be trying to more arch vis elements to my portfolio as I have the time to do so. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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