do I need more ram/faster processor?

[schmoron13]

I'm currently rendering images with a p4 2.2ghz, and 512mb pc2700ddr ram. I'm considering upgrading the ram to boost rendering times, but do you think that will help significantly? or is it better to upgrade the processor?

 

I know that 3ds max is a memory hog, so which of the two is better to upgrade? I saw a deal where I can double my ram to 1gig but I'm not sure if that would help much?

 

any comments, advice, etc....

 

and how exactly does a rendering network work? If I have a liscensed copy of max, can I use mult machines to render or do I need some renderfarm license?

 

Thanks in advance for your help,

 

Doron Serban

Computer Graphics

CUREE

[siliconbauhaus]

the more ram the better imho. as soon as you run out of ram it starts a swap file on your hdd and things slow way down. the only improvement you might get from changing your cpu would be if you went for the hyper threading technology but for the cost of one of those chips you could easily get 1.5 gb of ram and have money left over.

 

as for network rendering you have to install max on the other machines using the option to install for network rendering. after that its just a matter of setting up. I'm sure others here can give you all the nitty gritty details of that.

 

hope it helps

[Hiroshi]

I would personally say no. I use 256 ram, with a 350 Mhz AMD K6 processor, and it still renders quite well (a complex scene in about 5-10 minutes)

[Greg Hess]

would personally say no. I use 256 ram, with a 350 Mhz AMD K6 processor, and it still renders quite well (a complex scene in about 5-10 minutes)

 

Here's some data on processor scaling in 3dsmax rendering.

 

http://www.3dluvr.com/content/maxbench.php

 

A single Athlon 2400+ XP is 7.8 times faster then an AMD K6-2 400.

 

Combine the fact that a 2400+ XP system is considerably inexpensive, and you've got a good reason to upgrade.

 

As for the p4 system...check it in the benchmarks. The only way to really reduce rendertime, is by uppin the processor speed. And that of course, can cost a considerable amount of money.

[schmoron13]

thanks for the info guys...by the way, did anyone check on the date of the original post, lol? I posted the question back in january, but it never hurts to have none other than the honorable, computer-omniscent Greg Hess respond here... :gebigeek:

 

maybe you can help on this Greg. I have the following setup which I just finished putting together:

 

Intel® Desktop Board D845PEBT2

 

p4 2.2ghz at 400 fsb

 

2x512mb (1024mb total) ddr2700 (capable of 333mhz, but due to the chip-didn't know any better when I bought it 5 months ago-they are running at 266mhz)

 

2x 80gb WD 7200rpm IDE drives

 

Radeon 8500 128mb (dvi)

 

aardvark Direct pro Q10 (pro sound card)--I do composing and recording as well on this system.

 

Win XP Pro

 

3ds max 5.1, and vray FREE on occasion

 

I don't see any stats for a similar system, at least a p4 with 400mhz FSB, so I was wondering if it'd be a good idea (ie, cost effective) to upgrade my chip to 533mhz FSB, which would give me faster processing from the FSB, as well as allow my pc2700 ddr ram to run at the correct 333mhz as opposed to the 2100 266mhz that they are at now. Assuming it is, is it worth to go marginally up to the cheapest 533mhz FSB (p4 2.26) or should I go way up the ladder to the 2.8 for example?

 

 

Also, I just saw ECS boards for the first time and their dirt cheap. Are the board in your opinion any good, or can they evem serve a renderfarm purpose?

 

thanks,

 

Doron

[schmoron13]

my first double post...ahhhhh how time flies

 

[ May 07, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: schmoron13 ]

[Greg Hess]

Hey Doron,

 

Win XP Pro

 

If you haven't checked out the XP optimization article I wrote, I recommend doing so.

 

http://www.3dluvr.com/content/article/123

 

Also check out...

 

http://arstechnica.com/tweak/win2k/xp/sgp-tweaks-1.html

 

Which goes into more indepth tweaks.

 

That should help optimize your os, freeing up some resources. You might want to do this before considering a processor upgrade.

 

Other pre upgrade techniques to try...

 

1) Look for bios updates for your board. One might allow you to use a new ram divider to run your PC2700 at 333 instead of 266.

 

2) Check for later drivers for the board. Both INF and Intel's Application Accelerator. The INF driver deals with various motherboard hardware, and the Intel application accelerator is now primarily responsible for the IDE drivers. Both can effect system performance.

 

3) Make sure your clicking "SSE enabled" in Max5 when you render. And/or using the Max4.26 patch if your a max4 user.

 

4) Even if the ram is running at 266, if its pc2700 you may be able to tweak the latency settings to increase available bandwidth. Do you have any cas/ras/precharge settings in your bios?

 

Now back to the system.

 

A 2.66B is probably the best bang for the buck currently intel wise, with the 2.8 being the cheapest before the bigger price hikes.

 

Looking at newegg...

 

188 for the 2.53B

197 for the 2.66B

263 for the 2.8B

377 for the 3.06B HT

 

I don't think you'd notice much difference with a 2.53. A 2.8B would give a much more noticable jump in performance...

 

A 3.06B HT would give the largest jump in performance, as it would add Hyperthreading (make sure your board supports it first) which can decrease render times as much as 5-10% depending on the application/renderer your using.

[schmoron13]

as always, greg, you never fail to impress

 

I just printed out the two articles, and am looking through them now...impressive.

 

My bios is up to date, and I'll see about latency issues in XP when I get home (it's my home pc that I was referring to in the latest posts, but the thread had the specs referring to my work processor).

 

OUt of curiousity, has anyone heard of memturbo 2.1? I downloaded the demo and it looks like it frees up mem, but my IT guy mentioned that running such a program is counterproductive as it takes a hit on the processor and by it's very nature is misleading in that it affects memory just to use it (much like thte task manager). any thoughts?

[Greg Hess]

If you want stability and speed here's the magical formula.

 

1) Wipe the Drive. Repartion and Reinstall.

2) After OS install, update all the drivers to the latest STABLE versions. Make sure everything is up to date.

3) Optimize the OS install. Disable services not needed, disable all glitter/flare.

4) Disable everything NOT NECESSARY.

5) Install ONLY the Apps you will be using on the system.

6) ONLY THE APPS/PLUGINS you will be using.

7) Empty all temp files, temp inet files, windows update files, all the crap.

8) Run a registry cleaner. Verify that only the necessary items are starting up.

9) Defrag the system. Then defrag again.

10) After verifying everything works, is stable, and everything you need is on the system....

11) Ghost the computer using a commercially available clone utility, (like norton ghost). This can be done to CD's, another drive, or to DVD (best method is DVDRW).

 

On that cloned disk/file, you will have a flawless copy of the system in its prime. Everything optimized, no spyware, no crapware, nothing unnecessary. Flawless stability, streamlined speed.

 

Save this CD/DVD.

 

Every 6-24 months, restore the clone, restoring the system to its "original" clean slate. (Time dependent on use of system)

 

This copy will enable you to solve any os problem, restore instantly from a total hd failure/os failure and restore original speed/stability in less then 30 minutes.*

 

Inbetween these restores you can do the following to maintain performance/stability.

 

a) Clean temp files temp inet files regularly.

b) Avoid installing any unnecessary programs/applications.

c) Run a regcleaner/adware regularly

d) Defrag regularly.

 

Any programs which run resident (ram restorer's, system optimizers..sitting in your task manager) are just that...programs. A program uses resources to perform a selected task. Just running a ram "restorer" uses cpu cycles and system ram to function. Is it worthwhile? I've never seen a noticable difference running one or not.

 

[Edit]

 

Usually the best systems are...

 

1) Running the least # of active processes/programs.

2) Least # of possible variables. (Everything disabled thats not in use, including things in hardware)

 

Here's an example: Most people don't use their serial ports, or even the pports (unless their running dongles). If these aren't in use, they can be disabled in the bios, freeing up some resources..

 

3) Equipped with High Quality Ram, PSU, and Cooling (Which follows the 10C above ambient rule)

4) Is updated in spurts, instead of constantly. (This gives times for possible bugs to be ironed out of updates)

 

The systems that run dna analysis are...

 

2400+ XP Athlon's

Nforce2

Mushkin PC3000 DDR

WD800JB's

Antec Truepower 330 watts

 

They have a 30+ User base, and run 24/7. There are no applications in the task bar, and an average of 14-15 loaded processes upon user logon.

 

The machines are so stable, that the only time they ever get rebooted is for updates.

 

[/EDIT]

 

[Key note: Norton ghost does not need to be installed to clone the system. It can be fully run off a single 3.5 floppy disk]

 

*= This assumes you are frequently backing up your data/projects.

 

[ May 08, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Greg Hess ]

[david whiting]

Greg

 

Every once in a while you see a piece of information go by that is soooo helpful that you know you have to 'print it out and stick it on the wall' beside your computer. This is one of those!!!! :angecool:

 

From those of us that aren't real good at optimizing our machines...thanks.

 

David

[schmoron13]

Greg, I went through your article and it's genius. My computer is already running about 10-20% better.

 

That list is fantastic. David is absolutely right about putting it up on the wall.

 

If I'm ever in Maryland, I owe you lunch.

 

thanks!!!!!

-doron

[Greg Hess]

Glad it helped you.

 

Remember there are more advanced tips at ars-technica, and available on the world wide web.

 

Mine's just a cursory overview of the easier stuff to do.