nisus Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Hi all, By accident I discovered our company name together with three other visualisation companies in the keyword listings of a competitors site, meaning that whenever someone searches the net for our firm or a collegue, one automatically links to the competitors webpage... Personally I think this is an example of abuse of the name and recognition of another company for ones own publicity. What do you think about this? Is this legal? How would you react on this? What steps would you take? Any comments, stories, ideas, tips or whatever are most welcome! rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Nisus I don't beleive you would automatically link to their site, but would be find their site as an additional entry in the search results. I rekon this is commonplace...When in rome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Well that's one I never thought of. I am really disgusted over that bit of news. It is at the very least un-ethical. Is the other firm in the UK? Do you have any fraud or copyright/trademark sort of laws that would help you in addressing the situation? They ARE using deception to try to reel in clients that were looking for you. That is fraud. I would suggest that you first document the situation, including having others observe it, and then simply write to them (on paper) and demand an immediate removal of the keywords. Don't give them any room for an 'oh, we were just playing around' or 'I guess our web designer got carried away' crap. Send a letter to their ISP informing them that a customer is engaging in deceptive and fraudulent use of their system. Beyond that...accept the back-handed compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Welcome to the world of competition. Don't get me wrong, I'm against it, but I honestly don't see what you can do about it. It also depends in the context of how they placed your companies name in their site. If they included your name in a page like "our favorit links"... I don't even see how any letters like Ernest suggested would help. Like I said, its a competitive world. Here is an example: I'm an architect and we work with many contractors and developers. When one of them asks me if I know this specific rendering company, which he worked with in the past and asks me to send them over plans for a rendering, what do you think would happen? I inform him that we also give that kind of service, show him sampls and so on... If he goes "I woked with these guys in the past, and like their service..." then thats where I stop him and call the other guys for a meeting. I'm not saying that my example is what happening in your case, but what I am saying is that its a competition. Its a race, its tough and its getting harder and harder every day. What these guys did is a result of some spare time that was spent into thinking of how to get some more jobs out of the so few out there. Maybe you do need to visit Rome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hi all, Dibbers: I meant their site came up within the search results, almost always well placed in the top10. Ernest: Nope, no UK-based company. All four firms involved are Belgian. Deception it is, fraud must be. Un-ethical: without any doubt. Anyway, here is what we did: First we called up the owner of the site and explained the whole thing. Told the owner we gave them one week to remove those keywords from the pages AND from being found by webbrowsers. Continued by saying we would inform the other collegues/competitors - which we did - and that when things were not removed after one week, we would get into legal action. We also wanted tracking of every action they took to solve this problem. Of course the owner said was not involved into it, that it must be a trick of the webdesigner... (same old story... why do stupid people start up company's? They don't, so they're not stupid!) Next we asked for the webdesigners name and company, but she said he was a student. A few seconds later (I love search engines) we found the person and the company (...), called them up and told them the same story. After less than half an hour we get a funny email that they couldn't find our company name in the keyword listings... we pointed them out, together with the names of four other visualisation firms. Next they claimed not 'being aware' of any of these laws, that they can 'use our company name blah blah' and that if there were any laws, this wouldn't count for the internet. So we wrote down the same we've said by telephone, in a harder and very clear way, simply setting we have a registred name and that they were using our name on their behalf. In the mean time we have received an email that all keywords have been removed. We will check this today. rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hi Bigcahunak, Our company name was definately NOT in their 'other links' section, but clearly in their keywords for easy finding by search engines. In your example, I don't see the problem. Your client is free to chose any partner for the job. Having worked with them before is a bonus for your competitor, but when you directly have the chance to show him your work, you shouldn't be threathened. If you cannot convince him your enhanced value, you better start evaluating your product and price. On the other hand, we had clients trying out 'cheaper/other' visualisation firms too, some of which will return eventually for the added value we give, some will keep chasing the cheapest way possible. Competition, race? We don't see it that way for now. We got plenty of jobs, different kind of jobs too, different styles. Everyone has a share, we even worked together with some of the four competitors who are suffering from the same problem. So why not get together to tackle bigger projects? rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcahunak Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by nisus: Our company name was definately NOT in their 'other links' section, but clearly in their keywords for easy finding by search engines. Well, if thats the case. you are right. I guess I just didn't understand you in the first place. I suggest than you should take Ernest advice, and go out there and change Rome once and for all! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Roder Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hi nisus ! I think as soon as there gets some money into this industry, the world of bussiness comes out :angecool: I dont know if this is abusable - to link someones site in the code. It could be unwanted advertisement ! I think the best think your company can do is to be worse then them :angecool: best regrds, Pavel =========== www.paro.sk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Nisus This is definateley unethical, but I bet there isn't a Law which covers this. I had a company who simply copied and pasted my Company profile/sales pitch into their own web site!...The blood ycheek! He did remove it when I contacted him. He said his English wasn't very good and that it was onlt temporary...yeah, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Roder Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 blame them for unwanted advertisement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hi all, Let me make it clear: this is NOT (unwanted) advertisment! Imagine people searching your company and typing in your company name + 3d or visualisation and always find the same competitor on top... You like it? rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Roder Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 why not ?? They are somehow using your company name to promote 3d-service (theirs) ! Unless they dont have the same comp.name you can take it to court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 i guess you're talking about the html meta tag 'keywords'... it is an old trick to use all kind of off-topic words in these meta tag to lure people from search engines to the site. however, the 'keywords' meta tag is dying...modern search engines like google use full text search, and often completely ignore the 'keywords' tag. it is not illegal to put a company name in the (invisible) source code of a web page, nor is it illegal to link to your site, unless content is stolen, in an inset frame, for example. you should ignore it, and take care of your own site instead. you should be the first place in every search engine, if your company name is the search query. if you are not, you failed to promote the site properly. do some google research about this topic. there are commercial services for internet promotion. your site should appear in professional directories, yellow pages etc. links from reputable sites are the key to move up in search engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 it is not illegal to put a company name in the (invisible) source code of a web page Just wondering... Say I search 'pepsi', should one be able to find 'Coca Cola'? Anyway, tnx for the advice Marc rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 unfortunately, I don't think any argument you have will stand in legal proceedings. In the US, this practice is common unsavory as it is. Keywords are usually not visible to viewers of the page but are in strategic places for search engine spiders to pickup. As search engines improve, this method will go away. I am surprised to see this technique in this industry. Usually you find things like this with internet porn or scam sites. Type in pretty much any popular company name and you will get at least one of the above company types in the top 25 or so. That company definitely does NOT play well with others. Things are really dismal here but I would never stoop so low as to highjack someone else's traffic. I think you did the right thing. Question: was the web 'designer' actually a student as the company suggested? If so, you could bring his/her actions to the attention of the university. Students can be expelled for engaging in unethical business practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Hi John, The webdesigner was no student but a professional webdesign-firm. Maybe the guy was a student back when he made the page of our competitor... A brief update: - the webdesigner removed all meta-tags from the competitors on the site - the firm wants us to wait until every search engine is indexed again, and is willing to put their own webpage offline for that time. Personally I don't like this 'solution' at all because: - it doesn't solve the problem (search engines still find the old tags, even when erased now) - putting their webpage offline, can hurt their business. This is something we don't want either as there is no ending to this game of cat and mouse... So any suggestions what can be done? tnx rgds nisus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Sounds like you arrived at a good solution. It shouldn't take too long for the search engines to recycle the website data. In the interim, if the metatags have been removed, I can't see any reason why their site should be down for more than a day or so. I don't think that will hurt their business significantly. Since our website has been up (several years), I can count jobs directly associated with the website on one hand. It is mainly used by competitors and students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisus Posted March 5, 2003 Author Share Posted March 5, 2003 Still waiting for their proposal of a decent solution... I can count jobs directly associated with the website on one hand. It is mainly used by competitors and students --> lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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