How do you model a roof?

[Gnarly Cranium]

In my time trying to use MAX for architectural modeling, I've come across some sticky problems. The worst one is the roof.

 

If I'm trying to build a roof from a 2d plan, things get especially painful. I have to make a series of rectangles for each plane of the roof, tilt them up to the appropriate angle, and then tweak those splines until they fit the plan. This is a PROBLEM, because no matter which kind of snap I use, the lines never exactly match up with the plan. Moving the vertexes by Local coordinates, I can keep them on the plane they're supposed to be, but the 2.5 snap views the plan below from the ROOF'S plane, not the top view plane that I'm trying to match it up to, so the snaps are all wacky and inaccurate. And this is the BEST method I have for doing this.

 

Also, as I am not a drafter or a house builder, I am still confused as to whether the fascia of a house is supposed to be perpindicular to the plane of the roof.. or perpindicular with the ground?

 

I am curious to know how the other MAX archi people out there handle these problems.

[Jim Kessler]

Not to sound like a broken record, but the simplest answer is SketchUp [http://www.sketchup.com] Just watch the animated gif on the home page and see. Model in Su and then export to 3ds.

 

Hope this helps.

[Gnarly Cranium]

Ack... that thing does look pretty darn cool, but it's $475. Presuming we don't have an extra $475, and have to do more than 8 hours of roof modeling... then what?

[Jim Kessler]

2 solutions: one kosher the other not so; First, model the difficult stuff in less than 8, export to 3ds and finish the easy stuff. Second, you can unistall and then reinstall. BTW, more than 8 hours of roof modeling? are you working on a Gehry roof? man that sounds like a lot of time.

 

[ April 22, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Jim Kessler ]

[kid]

Here's what I do for simple hip and valley type roofs.

 

 

The orange line is the roof in plan. I draw a line (the green one) from the midpoint of one of the end edges. I then draw a vertical line from the apex point (the lightish purple line). I then rotate the green line whatever my roof pitch will be, then I trim these to meet at the same point. I then copy the purple line to the other apexes.

 

I then make a mesh object and 'create polygons' using the points on the plan and on the purple lines.

 

This was a simple roof with only one ridge height. For more complex roof shapes I'd draw lines from one apex down to the corners on plan, this would give my lines in 45degree plan but rising in correspondence with the roof pitch. Using these lines I'd construct a wireframe of the whole roof then use this to snap to, to creat polygons.

[schmoron13]

Two things:

 

Mine is rather archaic and juvenile, but it works most of the time. For simple roofs, you can always create boxes, then use the convert to mesh tool and using vertices, shape the roof according to specs.

 

the question I have concerns texturing. Once you have the basic shape, do people model tiles or stick a texture on there? The shingles mat that came with max 5 pretty much sucks. It repeats badly, and isn't super realistic...any suggestions?

[xgarcia]

Lofting works pretty in some situation (looks like kid coulda used lofting inhis picture above). Then edit mesh - move verts as needed. 8 hours is a long time to model roofs.

 

Xavier

 

Hey Jim...go gators!! I'm in my final week D8-Prof. Clark building massive site model w/ interventions. Almost done.

 

[ May 28, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: xgarcia ]

[AHaidar]

kid

Since you've already drawn the roof plan you could save a few clicks by using the Surface modifier.

If your roof plan is separate splines attach them so you have one spline.

Move the ridge vertices to the proper height.

Add a Surface modifier. Set the steps to 0.

Add a Smooth modifier.

[Gnarly Cranium]

2 solutions: one kosher the other not so; First, model the difficult stuff in less than 8, export to 3ds and finish the easy stuff. Second, you can unistall and then reinstall. BTW, more than 8 hours of roof modeling? are you working on a Gehry roof? man that sounds like a lot of time.

I do architectural visualization for a living. I've had to rebuild at least a dozen roofs already, and will certainly do that many again.

 

 

As for all of you people saying 'move the verts into position'..... HOW?

 

The roof has to stay at a certain slope. How do you get the roof verts to stay all in line with each other, and still match up to the roof plan? Pieces of a roof are not always rectangular-- they can have jagged and strangely angled bits, skylights, the works.

[kid]

Originally posted by AHaidar:

Since you've already drawn the roof plan you could save a few clicks by using the Surface modifier.

Doh! That makes sense. Cheers

[ingo]

Hi Gnarly, how about posting an example picture of your roof or something that looks similar. It makes it much easier to talk about.

If you need modelled rooftiles or only a roof texture depends on how close your camera is to the roof, i prefer modelling rooftiles which makes it much easier to texture and get realistic shadows.

[Gnarly Cranium]

Really, any roof that wasn't just a couple of rectangles leaned against each other would be a good example. Something with hips and valleys and gables in odd places... you can't just grab the vertexes along the ridge and lift those to the right height, and expect all the other vertexes between them and the lower edge to somehow end up laying flat along the slope of the roof. It just doesn't work.

 

Anyhow, here's a couple examples of complex roofs I've had to make.

 

 

I put roof caps on this one because the ridge edges wouldn't match up no matter what I did, I had to hide the seams. Also there are places where the roof is cut into at odd angles, and I never did get those to line up properly either. I had to Boolean the skylights, too, which causes problems.

Look here for a top view

 

This next one I haven't finished yet, I'm dreading the skylights. I also have to detail the gable ends with triple fascia trim, and I can't figure out how to get the edges of those extra little corners on the gables to project downwards properly.

 

Check here for top view

 

 

[ April 23, 2003, 05:16 AM: Message edited by: Gnarly Cranium ]

[STRAT]

call that complexed?

 

(nice piccy btw)

[Gnarly Cranium]

Well, it is to me! More than that example up above of just tugging the ridge into place and calling it done, certainly.

 

(and I accidentally hit Enter to soon and had to edit in the rest of the pics, bah)

 

(nice piccy btw)

Thanks!

[kid]

...More than that example up above of just tugging the ridge into place and calling it done, certainly...

It's no more complicated at all, read this bit again...

 

For more complex roof shapes I'd draw lines from one apex down to the corners on plan, this would give my lines in 45degree plan but rising in correspondence with the roof pitch. Using these lines I'd construct a wireframe of the whole roof then use this to snap to, to creat polygons.

 

No matter how complex a hip and valley roof looks, if all planes are at the same pitch the whole roof can be wireframed out quickly by copying just 4 lines (some extending and trimming required of course). Once the 3d wireframe is created then do what AHaidar suggested, then move your vertices by snapping them to points on the wireframe.

[Jim Kessler]

I think SketchUp is flat out the easiest method for creating complex roof shapes. In fact all of your modeling could be done in SU. Checkout the demo and see. I have almost converted all of my modeling tasks from AutoCad/Max into SU due to ease and precise control unlike max.

[Gnarly Cranium]

I believe you, man, it looks nifty. But I don't have $475 to spare at this point in time.

[ingo]

Bah, complicated roof. If you have the plan and the heights its just a matter of minutes, you can even do this with SketchUp A good starting point is to build the modell of solid blocks first, so you have a better overview in the beginning for your "complicated" modelling.

[Gnarly Cranium]

Matter of minutes HOW? Is there something I'm missing here? Nobody's explaining HOW they do any of this.... how do you get features like skylights and trim corners at the right height? How do you get strange gables and valleys to line up in the right spots? How do you line up things in a SLOPED object to a FLAT plan? Or is this just a completely stupid question?? orangesad

[DelfoZ]

Ok, this is how i do the roof´s

1- i export the CAD file to 3dsMAX,

2.-I draw a spline over the roof ( only triangles)

 

3.- I convert to mesh the triangle ( spline )

Go to Modify/editable mesh/vertex, and move the vertex ... Repeat the stpets over all triangles .. and done...

 

This take arround 5 minutes or less .. i hope this help to u

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

That makes sense, yes... but what about roofs more complicated than that? Roofs with odd little extra notches along the gables like the Norman roof I posted, or roofs whose edges get cut into by other features of the house, like the Rainey Falls I posted before that? What about skylights? There isn't any way to get the vertexes BETWEEN the ridges and lowest edges in the right plane.

 

Am I making sense?

[DelfoZ]

can u post any imagen of what u want to do ?

all is possible in max .. the question is "how"

[Ricardo Eloy]

Good point, DelfoZ. I use to create roofs using this same technique, and never faced a situation I couldn't apply it to. Even with more complicated roofs, you can always use mesh modeling. The most complicated thing I ever used was box modeling, which is also really simple and easy to learn.

Maybe a picture of this crazy roof of yours could help us, Gnarly!

[]

Rick

[xgarcia]

Just do it in autocad or ADT with 3dfaces. Export. Done.

 

Originally posted by Gnarly Cranium:

How do you line up things in a SLOPED object to a FLAT plan?

In MAX/VIZ you can use autogrid or simply create a grid object (helper object menu) onto the plane you wish to manipulate objects onto.

 

Or you can use the "normail align" tool. It's under the align button menu. It lets you select a face of an object and align to the face of another object. Pretty handy tool.

 

[ May 14, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: xgarcia ]

[malevy]

i hate roofs lol.. i have spent the last week or so trying to get a roof built and although they seem ok i know the pitch is off and im not sure how to get it correct even with a full set of plans.. i guess i need to read up on roofs to fully understand what is going on.