Vray-could it be made simpler???

[Andrew1]

Hey all,

 

After a long time study of vray and a personal choice to use it as a primary rendering engine, I came to a conclusion that the interface could be made a lot simpler.

I'v noticed there are switches and variables that are simply not needed, as a matter of fact I find many of them, over 4 years I have tried many combinations for a rendering solution, using photon map, using qmc, LC and irradiance map, and I find the only reliable solution seems to be Irradiance map and LC, for me the rest could just be scrapped right out!!,

 

Quote - vray manual.

 

Photon map - this approach is based on tracing particles starting from the light sources and bouncing around the scene.

This is useful for interior or semi-interior scenes whith lots of lights or small windows. The photon map usually does not produce

good enough results to be used directly; however it can be used as a rough approximation to the lighting in the scene to

speed the calculation of GI through direct computation or irradiance map.

Advantages:

· the photon map can produce a rough approximation of the lighting in the scene very quickly;

· the photon map can be saved an re-used to speed up calculation of different views for the same scene and of fly-through animations;

· the photon map is view-independent.

Disadvantages:

· the photon map usually is not suitable for direct visualization;

· requires additional memory;

· in V-Ray's implementation, illumination involving motion-blurred moving objects is not entirely correct (although this is not a problem in most cases).

· the photon map needs actual lights in order to work; it cannot be used to produce indirect illumination caused by environment lights (skylight).

 

why would somone ever want to use Photon Map when it produces incorrect results ??, if I'm wrong can someone give me an example where would photon map be used ?

 

I was just wondering how everyone else feels about the vray interface and all the existing variables.

[Thablanch]

There is a lot a preset scripts out there to make Vray more simple. Take a look at http://www.scriptspot.com. Lots of preset stuff

 

We all have our recipies, and when changing fields a little, we discover that thoses other useless settings are in facts really usefull. A little moving animation and switching from Ir Map ro Dmc can be really usefull.

 

I do not use photons, (except for caustics mabee) but I think that the way that Vray is put together is: Here is everything you could dream of, use it as you want.

 

People that are used to Mental ray know their way around with photons... Vray introduced PPT when the Unbiased word became popular like 3 years ago. Is is not what I would use, but it is there.

 

As well, I think you can not throw away what was working in previous releases, got to remain there, even if better and faster stuff pops out.

[STRAT]

must admit, i find the 'photon map' method as a gi option in vray completely useless for me too, and i suspect 99% of the user base dont use it either.

[Andrew1]

so goes for the color mapping tab, why would I wanna use anything else besides exponential and linear, I mean you want me to wait another 4-5 hours to see how my image would look like in "Intensity Gamma" ?? lol,

I rather throw the image in the photoshop and tweak the levels, and there I got my "Intensity Gamma" done in 2 minutes....

 

another thing that bothers me is the image sampler, why would I wanna tweak my image with 14 different image antialiasing filters ???,

Yeah I can use 4 pretty comfortably and that's all I need to receive great results, but 14 different types lol, do I have any more time to waste to try them all ???

 

and so goes for the Irradiance Map Tab, example the sample look up my setting stays 100% at density based (best) lol , why would I wanna use anything less than best ??? and now of course you can't miss interpolation type in the same tab, anything else than LEAST SQUARE FIT (good/smooth) gives terrible results, I tried to work with the other ones and always achieved a crap of a render...,

 

Sorry about the rant as complaining is not what I'm after, I am just curious how other vray users feel about the interface and it's available variables. It seems like the engine is never finished, some times you set it at it's maximal settings and you still have to tweak it, now your maximum setting may not work efficiently with the type of an image - a solution , well try this and try that if that don't work maybe try this , hold on one sec that didn't work ??? , well msg Vlado maybe he has a solution LOL,

kind of tired of that, setting up my render engine to the maximum setting should give me flawless and crisp results, nothing else but perfection

 

Cheers !

 

Andrew

[Dave Oliver]

i think for architecture, yeah, you dont need most of it....

 

i have done some stuff with just glass caustics that has made the photon map really useful, so im glad its in there. i dont know what else i would have used.

 

if your doing macro type of images like cells and things for medical illustrations those AA filters might make a difference, they could narrow down the list though and i would never notice.

 

i have also tried different color mapping setting with pre-loaded irr maps and that HVS exponential is not bad for some things.

 

actually now i have just switched to linear workflow, and i notice that unless im careful my old images with color mapping look too saturated.

[Devin Johnston]

I have to agree, I never touch 90% of the settings and I can't see that I ever will. I have figured out my formula and only change when I want to go from a quick working setup to final production and they differ a little for renderings or animations. It would be nice if there were a way to configure the menus so that only the settings you need to change were displayed. If you needed to go back to the default menu you could just pick it from a dropdown or something like that.

[Tommy L]

I think theyre all there for a reason. Vray has gone through alot of builds and I think its a solve-all renderer for its clients.

When you think about render power increasing all the time, there are options that I dont use because the solution takes too long (intensity gamma is the example you gave). However, that very option may be viable by next year. So why write it out of the program only to write it back in?

I prefer to have the options and not use them than not have the options. It keeps everyone's work their own.

[gfa2]

We need to remember that Vlado is a very accommodating programmer and has added many many special request options over the years. Things that most of us wouldn't use. Just today I was reading on the Chaos site that someone wanted a way to have bump maps still render even when the material override was activated. Vlado replied to the post and thought it was a good idea and that it wouldn't be a big deal to do so I suspect that in SP3 there will be an extra switch that will allow things like bump and opacity to render even with the override on.

[Devin Johnston]

Speaking of SP3 has he said when it will be comming out? I'm really eager to get my hands on the real time render engine.

[gfa2]

Chaos is showing off SP3 during their road show in Europe this month and I think they are doing something in Asia this month too. So I'm guessing it would be after that. Maybe we'll find SP3 under the Christmas tree this year.

[Devin Johnston]

If they are already showing it off shouldn’t we know what's going to be in it either by them telling us or someone who saw it.

[gfa2]

The road show hasn't started yet and as of a week ago there hasn't been an SP3 list released. Also I'm pretty sure the new realtime viewport thing is going to be a separate program/plugin and not part of basic Vray.

[rmccoy]

I was just reading that they are showing off SP3. I wonder when it will be released.

[Justin Hunt]

This is a general observation, not specific to vray

 

its interesting how things have come full circle, way back when there were hardly any settings and very little control. Then the mantra in 3D became "you want control, we'll give you control", so we got thrown dead with options and switches.

 

Now people are wanting things to be simpler, "why so much control?, I only use 10% of whats there, scrap the rest"

 

I wonder, whats next? People complaining that its too simple , any monkey can do this, our jobs are on the line.

 

Hang on, we have already had that with the simpification of mentalray

 

 

jhv