screen capture frame rate help needed

[Dave Buckley]

unsure as to where to put this post so feel free to move it

 

but basically, i am creating a screen capture, i am doing it at 1024x768, it is then going into premiere, and will be exported from there, here is what i have so far

 

screen res set at 1024x768, export from camtasia at 1024x768, start new composition in premire at 1024x768??? yes this all looks good

 

however i exported from camtasia as uncompressed avi, resulting in a huge 14Gb file, once exported from premire it was 60MB, much better but still could be improved.

 

the final video is only going to be viewed from the web, so my question is this, what compression should i use when exporting from camtasia, and also what formats?? i did avi at the time.

 

also when exporting from premiere then what format and compression???

 

preferably i want to maintain as much quality as possible.

 

is frame rate an issue here??

 

the original was exported at 30fps from camtasia (couldn't find a 25fps option)

 

the composition in premire was set at 25fps, but i exported at 30fps just to maintain speed with the original. am i right in thinkin that frame rate only really matters when being played back on devices such as tv's, dvd players etc

 

my first test was brilliant but far too large

[BOXXLABS]

what are you trying to accomplish?

 

what unsatisfactory results are you trying to avoid?

 

what are the criteria for delivery to the client?

[Jeff Mottle]

Why are you bringing the screen recording into Premiere? You should be able to render everything out from Camtasia. It has access to the same codecs as Premiere. Unless you are doing something special to the file in Premiere I would remove that step as you are effectively transcoding this file twice, rather than once. This leads to a drop of quality. The source CAMREC file in camtasia is a lossless format.

 

I do have a few questions though:

 

1. How long is this screen recording?

 

2. Will this need to stream or will it be delivered via a progressive download?

 

3. Is there any reason you need to set a specific frame rate? Normally Camtasia is set to automatically determine frame rate. You can however manually override this. The only time I could see needing to do this is if you were recording video. Although if you needed to do that, it would be easier to do an overlay with this file, rather than recording it again. If you are just doing mouse movements and application capture I would leave it set to auto. Normally it ends up around 7-15fps.

 

When you transcode your file, in the codec options you can specify to leave the frame rate as "current" or change the frame rate, although I'm not sure how well it will handle frame interpolation if you opted to increase the frame rate. If you want to keep file size down, there should be no reason to do this though.

 

If you are going to put it on the web I would personally shoot for an MOV or MP4 with H.264 compression. This will result in the best quality/compression and player/codec adoption. You could also use WMV, which if tweaked properly will do a pretty reasonable job and the file size can be pretty small. If you don't mind your viewers downloading a new codec, you could also purchase TechSmith's EnSharpen lossless codec which has been optimized for size and screen capture. I've not used it yet, but plan to do some tests in the future.

 

For the VisMasters WMV encoded videos we normally get around 3.5MB/min of 1024 x 768. With H.264, it will be bigger if yuo don't compress it too much.

 

Once you answer the quesitons above, I can help guide you a bit more.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Jeff Mottle

[Dave Buckley]

well i wasn't sure about frame rate, hence why i asked (it was more a question of whether i need to set a specific frame rate or no), i wasn't sure if it was an issue when only recording and exporting movies of your mouse movements on screen. i have only ever done work on things at uni at that was all to be viewed on tv sets and dvd's etc, and was also with captured dv footage, so everything was done at 25fps.

 

if i record my screen at 5 fps would playback on the computer be any faster/slower than it would if i recorded at 25fps. might seem like an obvious answer but i'm just checking.

 

i'm also taking it into premiere to add titles, overlay logos (psd files), and to edit (namely editing the bits out where i press alt+tab to switch application) and add transitions (dissolves). the reason i ask about frame rate is that i may end up editing video footage also with the screen capture stuff, and i wasn't sure whether having multiple frame rates in the premire timeline would have an effect on the final export??? for example, a 5fps screen capture edited with a piece of footage shot at 25fps, would mean i should export my timeline at ??fps.

 

i'm also editing in powerpoint presentations etc, and there is also a chance that the final video files may be authored onto a dvd

 

primarily i am hoping for the files to be on a webpage, both for viewing on the page and avaialble for download (would be bundled with the techsmith codec)

 

the videos are aiming to be around 15-20minutes, maybe even split up into smaller segments of 5mins to keep file sizes/download speed times down.

 

they will be of things like software demonstrations, bitesize training videos, answers to frequently asked questions, hot topics, can't really say too much at the minute

 

i managed to get the file sizes down massivley also, i'd been doing it uncompressed, i'm happ with the quality i've been getting.

 

i've been saving as camrec, then producing the video for camtasia as an .avi with techsmith codec

 

it was quite astonishing really, i did the same clip of a quick photoshop demo, it was around 2mins long, when i did it on uncompressed frames it was 2gb after coming out of camtasia, when i did it as .avi with techsmith codec it was 2mb, and there was no quality change whatsoever

[Jeff Mottle]

if i record my screen at 5 fps would playback on the computer be any faster/slower than it would if i recorded at 25fps. might seem like an obvious answer but i'm just checking.

 

If it's set to Auto, then you won't notice. I don't think auto will detect video though, so you would have to increase the frame rate for that, or do a PIP track.

 

i'm also taking it into premiere to add titles, overlay logos (psd files), and to edit (namely editing the bits out where i press alt+tab to switch application) and add transitions (dissolves).

 

Camtasia can do all of this. I would suggest doing them in Catasia as you are applying the edits to the original source.

 

the reason i ask about frame rate is that i may end up editing video footage also with the screen capture stuff, and i wasn't sure whether having multiple frame rates in the premire timeline would have an effect on the final export???

 

Ideally, you should convert them all to the same frame rate before putting them in the timeline, otherwise interpolation has to happen at render time and does not always work well from my experience. Here's a thread that might also help: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/205/871380

 

i'm also editing in powerpoint presentations etc, and there is also a chance that the final video files may be authored onto a dvd

 

Camtasia can also export to a DVD ready format that you can import into your DVD authoring app.

 

 

i've been saving as camrec, then producing the video for camtasia as an .avi with techsmith codec

 

Yeah, their AVI codec is lossless like the original CAMREC file.

 

when i did it on uncompressed frames it was 2gb after coming out of camtasia, when i did it as .avi with techsmith codec it was 2mb, and there was no quality change whatsoever

 

Depending on the audience, it's not always great to force them to download a codec, but can work. All depends on the audience.

[Dave Buckley]

jeff, your a star, thank you.

 

basically i've been doing an extra step that i don't need (premiere) ???

 

i'm quite glad about that as i was having diffuclty exporting from premiere when transitions were involved, was causing it to crash.

 

ok so let me clear things up and check i got it right.

 

camtasia will let me import a psd file with transparent background, it will also let me import PAL video footage?? if i do import PAL video footage then it would be safer to keep a consistent 25fps frame rate for every bit of media (video) that i place on the timeline, including the screen capture

 

sorry for getting hung up about this frame rate thing, but i was under the impression that if i had my timeline with screen capture at 15fps and video footage at 25fps, then if i exported the timeline in a format to be played back on a PAL tv device, that the screen capture would then end up jerky due to being a different fps

[Dave Buckley]

sorry one last question, you mention about not forcing the audience to download a codec, well what is a safe option because the quality i have at the minute is as good as the screen before the recording (with everything being lossless of course)

 

so what compression should i use, and to which format (.avi, .mov etc)

 

i did have a play with (.mov and H.264 compression) but couldn't seem to get a good quality with it. the main reason i tried this way was because of a thread i saw of yours where you ask the vismasters entrants to submit their entries this way, and all of the entries look really good quality, but somehow i couldn't match it. are the specific settings i am missing

[Jeff Mottle]

basically i've been doing an extra step that i don't need (premiere) ???

There is a lot of stuff you can do in Camtasia yes. I would reccomend reading the documentation so you can see. It's certainly no where near as flexible as Premiere, but for most basic stuff you can get it done.

 

camtasia will let me import a psd file with transparent background

Not a PSD from my quick test, but you can import a PNG, which does support alpha channels.

 

 

It will also let me import PAL video footage?? if i do import PAL video footage then it would be safer to keep a consistent 25fps frame rate for every bit of media (video) that i place on the timeline, including the screen capture

I've never tried it, but I would give it a test.

 

sorry for getting hung up about this frame rate thing, but i was under the impression that if i had my timeline with screen capture at 15fps and video footage at 25fps, then if i exported the timeline in a format to be played back on a PAL tv device, that the screen capture would then end up jerky due to being a different fps

Like I said before if you are going to be importing video you'll have to export at a higher frame rate. That frame rate setting is done from the codec. I don't think Camtasia allows you to set up a project frame rate, just a record frame rate and the frame rate during transcoding. If you do include video, you will have to increase the frame rate during transcoding. This will interpolate frames for the screen capture sections and should maintain the frame rate for the video section. You will of course have a much larger file size. I've never done what you are trying to do in Camtasia, so I would run your own tests. I would also experiment with recording the screen capture parts (apps and mouse movements) at the same frame rate you intend to export as and match the video you are trying to add to the timeline. This should help stop any interpolation during transcoding.

 

I'm not really sure what you are trying to do with this video part of you recordings so it's hard to tell the best way to proceed. I would do some tests though.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Jeff Mottle

[Dave Buckley]

ok jeff, cheers for the info

 

when you say you that you aren't too sure what i'm trying to do, well basically

 

i will have a combination of media edited together on my timeline, and i wanted it saved in a movie format. i also want the best quality possible whilst keeping file size down. the mixed media could be anything, from something i have filmed on a video cam, it could be screen capture, it could be stills.

 

anyway i think you have answered my question

 

i am just trying various export options, i have decided that i don't really need premiere at the minute

 

so far i have tried mp4, mov with h.264 codec, and now going to try wmv with h.264 codec.

 

i don't want the audience to need to download a codec first.

 

there doesn't seem to be any controls for codec options when doing mp4 (flash), i think you mentioned h.264 with mp4, or maybe it was just the wording

[Jeff Mottle]

there doesn't seem to be any controls for codec options when doing mp4 (flash), i think you mentioned h.264 with mp4, or maybe it was just the wording

 

When you select the MP4 option it automatically uses H.264 as the codec.