BVI Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Sorry. I can't agree with you on this one. The non-competes/non-disclosures are perfectly legal and binding if they are written properly. I suppose it also depends how rigorously the employer wishes to enforce their contractual agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I suppose it also depends how rigorously the employer wishes to enforce their contractual agreement. Like most things in law, regardless of whether or not it's right or wrong, the one with the most money and staying power usually wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yes. It all depends on how much money the employer is willing to spend to protect their best interests. A full-blown lawsuit can cost around $30,000. On the other hand, losing a big client can cost hundreds of thousands in the long term. I bet most companies today do not want to (or can't afford to) waste any money on attorney's fees. It's always best for both sides to be fair to each other and avoid conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willykk Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thats bad:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yes. It all depends on how much money the employer is willing to spend to protect their best interests. A full-blown lawsuit can cost around $30,000. On the other hand, losing a big client can cost hundreds of thousands in the long term. I bet most companies today do not want to (or can't afford to) waste any money on attorney's fees. It's always best for both sides to be fair to each other and avoid conflict. Hi Eddie, But sometimes an employer is willing to burn a few thousand bucks just to prove a point or to exact vengeance. An ex-emplyer of mine told me he sued a guy he hired to do a website, and that he spent a few thousands which were enough to make an amazing website, in addition there is all the wasted time...But he told me he didn't regret it and that is is still on. But I think when you do things in spite you regret it after a while. (I learned that the hard way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Eddie, But sometimes an employer is willing to burn a few thousand bucks just to prove a point or to exact vengeance. An ex-emplyer of mine told me he sued a guy he hired to do a website, and that he spent a few thousands which were enough to make an amazing website, in addition there is all the wasted time...But he told me he didn't regret it and that is is still on. But I think when you do things in spite you regret it after a while. (I learned that the hard way) I agree, but I would never do something like that in spite. However, I have done it to protec t my company and set a precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preludevtec22 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Though - Architects, broadcast studios, ad agencies.... have been battling these issues out for years and this is how most firms get started. Someone gets laid off or ticked off at the firm and runs out the door with an arm full of clients. I've seen it a few times and I'm sure most have.quote] I agree - it's how I started my Architectural and Planning consultancy business - I had had enough of being taken advantage of, so with many a client whispering that they would stick with me should I leave, I did. I now run a successful practice with my girlfriend, employ a few freelance guys and have never looked back. Anyway - sorry to hear about the job loss - it's not easy out there at the mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I now run a successful practice with my girlfriend, employ a few freelance guys and have never looked back. Congrats on your success! Do you ever worry now that your freelancers might do the same to you? I think that as an industry we should encourage good and fair behavior on both sides. Otherwise, it's just dog eat dog out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appelstroop Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Whenever I sign a contract with a company I have to agree that I could get sued if I take their clients away, going to work for a "rival" compay or use their products to start a business of my own. I can't do that for about 1.5 to 2 years after I leave the company or I risk a fine for about 1000 euro a day should I continue with my own business. Ofcourse they have to prove that I'm breaching the contract in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preludevtec22 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Congrats on your success! Do you ever worry now that your freelancers might do the same to you? I think that as an industry we should encourage good and fair behavior on both sides. Otherwise, it's just dog eat dog out there. No I don't - I pay each a good rate of pay and treat them as equals, which they are. It is something the previous company I worked for didn't do, and is why I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No I don't - I pay each a good rate of pay and treat them as equals, which they are. It is something the previous company I worked for didn't do, and is why I left. That sounds great. We are on the same page. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 sadly, I suppose its true for most industries and in particular to ours, there are fewer good bosses than bad ones out there, who exploite there staff and then get pissed when they leave. Maybe I am nieve but I just dont understand this mentality jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 there are fewer good bosses than bad ones out there, who exploite there staff and then get pissed when they leave. There are bad bosses out there. But, I think they are the ones that are inexperienced and have not been bosses long enough to realize that a successful company must be a win win environment for everyone. I can honestly say that I believe all the reputable 3d companies in our industry are operated by very good, honest, and fair bosses. Otherwise, they wouldn't be where they are now as a company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 sadly, I suppose its true for most industries and in particular to ours, there are fewer good bosses than bad ones out there, who exploite there staff and then get pissed when they leave. Maybe I am nieve but I just dont understand this mentality jhv The problem is you never know what moral values a person really has, even after months of knowing him. I was very naive and I still am, I used to think everyone wants the best for me. A few months ago I was thinking that everyone is trying to get you, now I think that some people are worth knowing, but most would hurt you to make a small benefit. I say to my wife, people in Lebanon would sell you for $3 if they could. I am pretty sure that my new job, I will look for a good honest relationship with a boss who has my same moral compass. My problem is I am 33, and I am still naive, I still fall for anyone who shows me some respect, and when I open up they (in Lebanon) stab me in the back, or want to ride my back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 you arboth correct, although I have also worked with some very experienced people who were the worst of the lot. My best boss was the one I had whilst working in London 9 years ago. I am still sad that I left that job. I consider the work I was doing then some of my best ever. Mainly because my boss really encouraged us to to our best and we were reqarded for it. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preludevtec22 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 That sounds great. We are on the same page. Best of luck! Thankyou. To you also, especially in this uncertain market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eezo Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 I have just checked my contract, there is nothing in there to say I cant use any of the images I have also never signed anything to that effect. Im not out to rip of my former employer, I havent stolen any of his clients (I could have), all im doing is useing the images I have created to show off my portfolio and gain a living. I see nothing wrong with this in the slightest. Has been very interesting to read everyones thoughts on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Denby Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I bet there's also nothing in your contract saying that if you steal the photocopier, you could be reported to the police. I'm sure your former employer won't mind you using the images, but it's still a fact that the copyright for those images belong to the company. Just ask him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 If you are using the images as a professional portfolio to contract potential clients, then you are in the wrong. You can try asking permission, but don't assume you have the right to use these when starting a new company, or freelancing. If you are using the images to gain employment for a company, then you are fine, as long as you are clear about whether you completed the entire image, or just part of it. It is common practice to provide examples of what you created at your current or previous job when you are interviewing for a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest percydaman Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry. I can't agree with you on this one. The non-competes/non-disclosures are perfectly legal and binding if they are written properly. I suppose I should have said they 'frequently' aren't worth the paper they're written on. And I think we can both agree that it needs to be worded properly. I believe there was a recent case regarding an employee wanting to move from microsoft to google (or the other way around I dont recall) who lost his case in court. But some context is key here: He was an upper level management kind of guy who knew alot of company 'secrets'. The average arch vis employee, on the other hand, really is just a worker bee type. Most of the time, there's little he could take, in the way of proprietary knowledge, from one company to another, that would greatly damage his prior employer. Which is why I said what I did. My previous employer, required me to sign a no-compete clause. And I certainly gave it some thought when it was time for me to move on. But after doing some research, I quickly found that I had little to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Gaushell Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I have just checked my contract, there is nothing in there to say I cant use any of the images I have also never signed anything to that effect. Im not out to rip of my former employer, I havent stolen any of his clients (I could have), all im doing is useing the images I have created to show off my portfolio and gain a living. I see nothing wrong with this in the slightest. Has been very interesting to read everyones thoughts on it though. Like others have said - just ask for permission. It is quite common to show work, but be clear in exactly what you created for that shot (if not everything from soup to nuts) and to give credit (openly) to the firm you worked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Charles T. Gaushell, AIA -Principal/Managing Partner Paradigm Marketing & Creative (formerly Paradigm Productions, LLC). Not to get off the subject, but how long ago has Paradigm transformed into a marketing & creative firm? Is this a sign of the times or just an evolution (paradigm shift) in the business model? Congrats on the new site and moving towards a new business concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarinClifton Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm sure your former employer won't mind you using the images, but it's still a fact that the copyright for those images belong to the company. Just ask him! The number one item for anyone in this position is to make sure that you correctly credit and display the owners copyright information. (your previous employers copyright) Outside of an NDA (not so much NC) copyright laws are very tight and it would be dumb to open your self up to that... With the economy in the toilet many more people will find themselves in this situation, just ask you boss for permission. Most employers hate to lay people off and only do this for the survival of the company. We had to let some people go, which was very hard, but we actually helped them put a demo reels together. Some employers DON'T give a damm and if you don't know that you are working for someone like that your pretty dense. Actually the "bad" bosses are the ones that you need to watch out for, I know guys that will file a suit knowing that the employees will have NO way to fight it. (these are bad people) Good luck in your search, be patient, be persistent.... there ARE jobs out there for talented people! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Gaushell Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Not to get off the subject, but how long ago has Paradigm transformed into a marketing & creative firm? Is this a sign of the times or just an evolution (paradigm shift) in the business model? Congrats on the new site and moving towards a new business concept. Thanks, but not a new concept. Just a slight name change to be more accurate to our services that we've been providing for a very long time. The marketing work uses 3D as a core service. We've actually been providing those services since 1995, three years after our founding. We've always been a bit "fringe" here since we are not 100% 3d. Edited January 31, 2009 by Charles Gaushell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy shand Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am more annoyed about ex employees bringing their virus laden flash drives onto the system to download their images more than the taking of the images themselves. for me it has been the unwritten code that ex employees can use their work to gain further employment with another company but not as a portfolio for freelancing/starting up another operation in competition with me. taking library objects and textures ect is a huge no no. and as for how much of an image somebody has done ..well just about every portfolio I see nowadays is evermotion library objects in a room or one of their exteriors with their lighting rigs and a few thing changed to keep it not obvious. So at first glance you think not bad! but not many people know how to make a complex object from first principles while keeping the stack going or to construct a lighting rig without using vray with the evermotion settings. So they are stuck searching for similar library objects to edit and long vray rendering times..ie they are going to miss the deadline by a mile!! So I pretty much start the interview by dis beleiving 90 percent of what I see and then ask searching questions to prove their innocence..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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