Carrotious Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Hi all, am in need of a new computer for 3d studio max and vray 1.5sp2. I have two quotes and am looking for comments : 1. Price Swiss Francs - 2580.- (USD 2222.-) Price includes Build and software install ASUS P6T DELUXE ( Intel X58/ICH10R - Socket 1366 - QPI 6400 MT/s ) 2 x DDR3 6GB [3x2GB] DDR1333 (PC3-10666) - CORSAIR TR3X INTEL Quad Core I7-940 2.93GHz 2 x ATA300 500GB - 7200 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 (16MB) [HD502IJ] 650W CORSAIR TX Series [CMPSU-650TXEU] ANTEC Nine Hundred Boîtiers pour jeux ( 3 x 5.25 ) - No Power English MICROSOFT Windows OEM Vista Ultimate 64-bit DVD SATA DVD-ROM LITEON iHDS118 Black OEM [ iHDS118-18 ] 2. Price Swiss Francs - 2133.79.- (USD 1838.-) Shipped to door... DELL Studio XPS Intel Core i7 Processor 940 (2.93GHz, 8MB cache, 4.8GT/sec) Intel® X58(Tylersburg)/ ICH10R 12288MB (6x2048) 1067MHz DDR3 Tri Channel 1To (2x500Go) Serial ATA Non Raid (7200tr/min) English Genuine Windows Vista SP1 Ultimate(64 BIT) One thing is that the DELL DDR3 is 1067 while the Corsair is 1333. Is there a big difference in performance? I'm considering a PNY Quadro 3700 to go with this system. Anyone have any comemnts on which one to go for? I'm thinking this is a fast machine? Thanks Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Dan Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Hi, I think you can't really call it a self build as you would be buying it 'built' At the prices you've put I'd go for the Dell, but if you actually did build the self build you could do it a lot cheaper in which case I'd go for this option (of course for you this depends on your experience and ability) I would advise is having RAID 1 hard disk array for Data, have a seperate boot (windows) HD and keep an up to date image of this on the Data array for emergency's sake. I don't image you will notice the difference between 1066 and 1033 Mhz RAM, what I do suggest is that you have a lot of it and try to buy it at the same time (this can avoid compatibility problems later). I went from 4GB to 6GB to 8GB recently, it really helps with Vray displacement rendering, and you can have Max, AutoCAD, and a big Photoshop file open simultaneously no problem. Do more research into the Quadro cards vs ATI, They were good 12 months ago but they've been blown out of the water recently by ATI especially for the money. Consider a HD4870x2 I don't think it is officially supported by Autodesk, but I run 2 HD4850's with outstanding performance, much better than a Nvidia Quadro FX 4600 I was running at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarinClifton Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 If you buy from Dell, I would Buy from there professional workstation line (Precision). If you order anything else the support sucks, but servers and workstation support is great (in the US not sure in Europe).. I buy a lot of computers, when I have done apples to apples comparisons you can usually build a system your self is a little cheaper. (10-20%) when not counting your time to build it. Self build Pros - cheaper, better knowledge of the system to make repairs when something goes wrong. Cons - The time to build it, Very little support when something goes wrong Dell Pros - Plug it in and start working, someone to call when something goes wrong (NOT on home systems "Studio/Vostro/Inspiron" support sucks in US) Cons - Costs a little more, fewer options Good luck! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ky Lane Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If you buy from Dell, I would Buy from there professional workstation line (Precision). If you order anything else the support sucks, but servers and workstation support is great (in the US not sure in Europe).. I buy a lot of computers, when I have done apples to apples comparisons you can usually build a system your self is a little cheaper. (10-20%) when not counting your time to build it. Self build Pros - cheaper, better knowledge of the system to make repairs when something goes wrong. Cons - The time to build it, Very little support when something goes wrong Dell Pros - Plug it in and start working, someone to call when something goes wrong (NOT on home systems "Studio/Vostro/Inspiron" support sucks in US) Cons - Costs a little more, fewer options Good luck! D Dell XPS Support in Australia is awesome. Same day service. Make sure you pick a good video card too, if this is a workstation. And IMHO, spend an extra $20 and get 8GB Ram. It just helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinger Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 DDR3 is not a improvement over DDR2 till you get above the 1600mhz range and above. Also, I would get a i7 920 instead of the 940. The higher cost in a 940 is not justified at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXXLABS Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 *Here's an alternative to the options being discussed that is faster and less expensive than Dell Precision - or Mac Pro or HP - with great technical support. http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DBOXX/4850_Performance.asp Adam BOXXlabs *shameless plug warning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmdr Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Wow $6300 Vs. $1800 - that makes it a tough call (smiles). And if I was worried about the "reliability' line that always comes into play, I could just buy three more $1800 machines for back up. And. . . .and . . . . bingo! I've got a render farm! In addition to a new machine. Seriously, I love the "BOXX" stuff and admire what they do, but trying to justify that to the accounting department - it's a little tough. I know I'd get lines line like: the $900 hammer, the $800 toilet seat, stuff like that. Still, if you're looking for a totally unbiased (cough, cough) test subject, I'll happily send you my address! No offense, Boxx is great, but . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXXLABS Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 heheh, understood - -Just thought i'd throw that in as long as someone had mentioned the Dell Precision workstation option. I should have remembered your budget regime... Cheers, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarinClifton Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 heheh, understood - -Just thought i'd throw that in as long as someone had mentioned the Dell Precision workstation option. I should have remembered your budget regime... Cheers, Adam That is just crazy! We commonly buy Precession's for around $1000 w/o video, which can add $500-$1500 depending on the user. I have priced BOXX many times (apples to apples) and they have never come close to dells pricing for us... I'm NOT saying that BOXX doesn't build a better system than Dell, just that I would NEVER spend 6-8K on ANY workstation that will be obsolete or 1/2 the price in 12 months. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXXLABS Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 That is just crazy! We commonly buy Precession's for around $1000 w/o video, which can add $500-$1500 depending on the user. I have priced BOXX many times (apples to apples) and they have never come close to dells pricing for us... I'm NOT saying that BOXX doesn't build a better system than Dell, just that I would NEVER spend 6-8K on ANY workstation that will be obsolete or 1/2 the price in 12 months. D I will accept the notion that you would never pay much for a workstation. That's fine. But the idea that BOXX charges more for performance and quality is just not true. Our newest systems can smack a DELL or MAC Pro machine silly (in both buiild quality and speed of operation) for thousands less. Not to turn this into an advertisement, but I feel that I needed to clarify misleading statements for the record. With all due respect - Adam BOXXlabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarinClifton Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 OK I tell you what I will do you send me your contact info, and the next time I order a system I will get an apples to apples quote with Boxx and Dell and post the results here... dclifton@aniprod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) here is a Dell Quote just to participate with joy with the already existing confusion in this thread.... i'm not sure boxx can propose thousands less for the same config. don't misunderstand, i think BOXX is great and very robust, and becomes cheaper with time. but their prices (until now?) have always been a problem for me... edit: price in euro Edited February 8, 2009 by Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 5175 Euro? I've said it before and I'll say it again, y'all spend too much on computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 SandmanNinja Says... Here's a good comparison/idea I had earlier. What is better? A computer that costs thousands of dollars BUT has a longer life span (say, 5 years of hard use) or A computer that costs less than a thousand dollars and has an average life span (say, 2.5 years of hard use) Let's say they depreciate out to the same annual cost (or very close), so in one way they cost the same. However, I know for a fact that I will not use this computer for serious work for more than 2.5 years. My current computer is a quad core with 8 gig of ram and a GT8800 w/1-gig video ram and I'm already being tempted by dual-quad cores. And my computer is just a year old. So, even if your computer has components that will last 2-3 times longer than cheaper components, would you even want to be using that more expensive computer in 5 years? I think not. For the same money as a name-brand computer, I can build 2-3 "good" computers that kick ass and should last a long time. Plus, I do have a warranty with the local shop that put it together for me. When I retire this one, I can have another state-of-art computer custom-built and the cost of those two custom-built PCs will still be less than a store-bought one. Just my 2 cents. -SandmanNinja's Wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 5175 Euro? I've said it before and I'll say it again, y'all spend too much on computers. Ohh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is... the complete quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Buchhofer Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 That seems a bit overly expensive to me. And i'm a big fan of buying enough computer to have it still be useful in 3 years time. (Along with the somewhat more recent stuff, I'm still nursing some 5+year old boxx 1u's. they're slow as hell compared to things nowadays, but 5 years of rendering adds up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytohaveher Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Always self build, unless someone is giving something away. As for the clone versus expensive issue, I have a 2001 clone running in the office. Yes, the power supply gave up a couple of months ago -- $50 at the parts store and 15 minutes of install. If you are really using the system for production, you will almost never be using it 3 years from now, especially in it's current form. You will change Ram, video, or drives. So, always buy great parts, but don't over pay. Computers are now like light bulbs. Commodity products that are easily replaced and highly transitory. With 1TB USB backup drives you don't need to be paranoid about quality, just back-up regularly. Most systems are slow due to disk speed NOT processor or Ram issues. Be sure to spend the money on a RAID 10 system or faster setup. I have used Superspeed's Supercache with great results. It great improves swap file, loading, and repetitive functions. If you are network rendering, be sure to have the server on Supercache AND have multiple gigabit rendering cards or ports bridged to each system. With rendering many times the system throughput is network constrained. Once the gigabit paths are bridged, then you will get a big performance increase. If you have many slave rendering systems, be sure to segment seperate the dual-gigabit paths to separate gigabit hubs and slave systems. That way you don't get a pinch point. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXXLABS Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) here is a Dell Quote just to participate with joy with the already existing confusion in this thread.... i'm not sure boxx can propose thousands less for the same config. don't misunderstand, i think BOXX is great and very robust, and becomes cheaper with time. but their prices (until now?) have always been a problem for me... edit: price in euro HI Mike - I'll take your challenge! The 3DBOXX 4850 Extreme system easily outperforms the DELL you have quoted by a WIDE margin - for both 3D raytrace rendering and 2D compositing. http://www.boxxtech.com/Downloads/Products/w4850/4850-Competitive-Price-Comparision.pdf Here are some benchmarks between the 4850 Extreme and a dual Xeon at 3.4Ghz - the fastest one sold by DELL, HP or Apple... http://www.boxxtech.com/products/3DBOXX/4850_Performance.asp Edited February 9, 2009 by BOXXLABS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizzy Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 well isn't the x5492 much more expensive as a i7 extreme? and then there are even 2 of those.. and yeah, the i7 kicks the xeons butt. you (boxx) are overclocking the i7 though right? hows the stability on that? I'm going to buy an i7 end of this month and am thinking off doing some OC-ing myself. any pointers as what to look out for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 HI Mike - The 3DBOXX 4850 Extreme system easily outperforms the DELL you have quoted by a WIDE margin - ok ok, i have no doubt about the performance. (slightly more powerfull in multi proc, and way more powerfull in openGL(cinebench 10)) but its not "thousands less" as you said..... it is more expensive. (DELL is 5450$(i substracted the 2 2408 wfp screens off the quote) and BOXX 4850 is 6366 $). Cheers. that said, i wish i could have afforded myself a BOXX, but their french reseller had less interesting financing options than dell when i called them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 ok sorry i didn't realize i had a substantial price reduction. the dell public price is not 5450 $ as i said (the price i paied), but 6800 $. the boxx 4850 is 6366 $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarinClifton Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Do let us know what you think of the 5400, I still think they are a bit over priced but if you high density workstation support, it is a nice option. I have had doubts with how graphics it will perform remotely especially with very heavy scenes. Good Luck! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Do let us know what you think of the 5400, I still think they are a bit over priced but if you high density workstation support, it is a nice option. I have had doubts with how graphics it will perform remotely especially with very heavy scenes. Good Luck! D I' don't know if I'm totally objective, but I do think they rock. I also have had doubts with remote access. but the FX 100 remote access device with TERA1200 Host Processor is simply outstanding. I made several tries to see the differences; I plugged screens directly to the station, worked with heavy scenes, and i did the same thing by pluging screens on the device. Simply no differences. incredible.That means i have my 24 u Rack enclosure in a roomwith the five R5400, and i symply have an ethernet cable leaving the switch to my work room. my desk is..... empty the principal lack of the solution is that there is no management software. there is no software to remotly start, shutdown, or monitor the workstations. I use magic packet sender to wake the machines on LAN, and i use RDP to shut them down and monitor them. that's a bit uncomfortable. that's why i'm interested in Refamo, wich i will buy as soon as it is available for vista 64. it's a bit overly priced that's true, but on the other side, dell has a great financial power that allows them to propose interesting financing options... at the end,the monthly price is really not expensive for what it is. ps: i'm very diappointed by dell screens. next one will be an eizo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOXXLABS Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I' don't know if I'm totally objective, but I do think they rock. I also have had doubts with remote access. but the FX 100 remote access device with TERA1200 Host Processor is simply outstanding. I made several tries to see the differences; I plugged screens directly to the station, worked with heavy scenes, and i did the same thing by pluging screens on the device. Simply no differences. incredible.That means i have my 24 u Rack enclosure in a roomwith the five R5400, and i symply have an ethernet cable leaving the switch to my work room. my desk is..... empty the principal lack of the solution is that there is no management software. there is no software to remotly start, shutdown, or monitor the workstations. I use magic packet sender to wake the machines on LAN, and i use RDP to shut them down and monitor them. that's a bit uncomfortable. that's why i'm interested in Refamo, wich i will buy as soon as it is available for vista 64. it's a bit overly priced that's true, but on the other side, dell has a great financial power that allows them to propose interesting financing options... at the end,the monthly price is really not expensive for what it is. ps: i'm very diappointed by dell screens. next one will be an eizo... Hi Mike, We are "playing" with the Teradici Tera 1100/1200 solution here in the lab as well. We think it's super-cool and would be a great solution for artists who demand absolute quiet and have a limited space at their desk. I'm glad to hear you are having a good experience with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike. Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 do you have in mind to perhaps use it in some BOXX setups ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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