Virgil Johnson Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 My subscription is up for renewal and the dealer is telling me I have to make a choice. He says regular Max contains the SDK and is for gamers and Design is for visualization. Anyone else heard of this choice? Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Regular Max has the SDK, and Design has the lighting analysis tool. That's about the only difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 doesnt matter right now...but in a couple of years, when the programs diverge significantly, it will be a big issue...and many people whilst not be happy...myself included. i think this will be a disaster for them. but who knows, i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVI Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I also got this email today.. 3ds Max Self-Select Program Choose your 3ds Max by 5:00 PM PST on Thursday, February 26, 2009. Last year, as an Autodesk® Subscription customer, you received Select Edition of Autodesk® 3ds Max® 2009 software that allowed you to install either Autodesk 3ds Max or Autodesk® 3ds Max® Design. Now that you’ve had the chance to try both versions, it’s time to choose which 3ds Max is right for you. This year, we’re giving Subscription members a limited, one-time opportunity, to cross-grade licenses from Autodesk 3ds Max to Autodesk 3ds Max Design (or vice versa)* at no additional charge. Dum dum duuuummmm.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Got the mail too, and have the feeling I just landed in a bad game show. There actually is no information about the consequences of this. I thought it was a benefit of subscription that you could always switch without additional cost. What about feature differences in the future ? What about member of arch.viz community that wants to develop plugins ? Do they still get all the tools free when joining ADN ? What about pricing when you want/need to switch after feb.28th. ? What if you do not want to choose now ? I haven't even started using 2009 and now I have to decide within a few weeks on what to choose !!! What with Max2010 ? Can you switch on new releases without addidtional fees ? Why not drop the 2 versions and make an interface that is both comfortable for starting/non-demanding users and customizable enough for users in pipelines, developer environments, etc ? Was it still not enough to raise the subscription fees by about 20% ? If subscription gets complicated I suggest to drop that too !! Generally I suggest that nobody should choose and let AD decide. I once chose Max and not Viz, so that should make it clear what I expect from the future !! Economical crisis does strange things to companies and I'm even more afraid for all the shareholders that have to listen to all the fairytales about how their money will grow with all such decisions. At this time it's all just a big lottery and things can go bothways !! It surely is not about shareholders and users...it's just about making the right decisions and money. It's just a handful of people making these decisions and I wonder if they ever touched a computer... :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVI Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Got the mail too, and have the feeling I just landed in a bad game show. There actually is no information about the consequences of this. I thought it was a benefit of subscription that you could always switch without additional cost. What about feature differences in the future ? What about member of arch.viz community that wants to develop plugins ? Do they still get all the tools free when joining ADN ? What about pricing when you want/need to switch after feb.28th. ? What if you do not want to choose now ? I haven't even started using 2009 and now I have to decide within a few weeks on what to choose !!! What with Max2010 ? Can you switch on new releases without addidtional fees ? Why not drop the 2 versions and make an interface that is both comfortable for starting/non-demanding users and customizable enough for users in pipelines, developer environments, etc ? Was it still not enough to raise the subscription fees by about 20% ? If subscription gets complicated I suggest to drop that too !! Generally I suggest that nobody should choose and let AD decide. I once chose Max and not Viz, so that should make it clear what I expect from the future !! Economical crisis does strange things to companies and I'm even more afraid for all the shareholders that have to listen to all the fairytales about how their money will grow with all such decisions. At this time it's all just a big lottery and things can go bothways !! It surely is not about shareholders and users...it's just about making the right decisions and money. It's just a handful of people making these decisions and I wonder if they ever touched a computer... :confused: I Agree, the " This year, we’re giving Subscription members a limited, one-time opportunity, to cross-grade licenses from Autodesk 3ds Max to Autodesk 3ds Max Design (or vice versa)* at no additional charge" part worries me. I know there is very little difference between the two versions at this point, but who's to say they dont strip out more or diverge further in the next year or two. I assume there will be a charge to switch licenses - this is Autodesk after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Don't even get me started on Autodesk. I have had to deal with them for more than 15 years and I get a sour stomach knowing I have to play the game. (Because of my business which is more on the technical side than the artistic side I have to use the main stream software.) I think Brian brought out what is my fear - that we are going to eventually find ourselves having to buy two packages of Max to get the features we need. Because this is clearly becoming a world of BIM (along with Revit for me) I guess the lighting analysis package is going to win. Going for the Tums tablets now. Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 It seems odd to me (not that I would expect anything less, though) that Autodesk after only 1 or 2 releases after getting rid of Viz, would now want to go back to two seperate products. It seemed to me that getting rid of viz was a step in the right direction, but now it sounds as if they are going to start going in divergent directions again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrant3d Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 doesnt matter right now...but in a couple of years, when the programs diverge significantly, it will be a big issue...and many people whilst not be happy...myself included. i think this will be a disaster for them. but who knows, i could be wrong. I think you're right. I've thought the divergence of product lines was a really bad thing for those of us who are (or aspire to be) on the cutting edge of arch-viz. Even more frustrating is when they announced 2009 there was a lot of talk about not worrying, the products weren't that different and subscription users could use either. Less than a year later, we still have no clear idea what future differences will emerge but we're expected to decide between the two packages. The sky isn't falling, its not the end of the world... However as someone who makes their living from arch-viz this seems like a really bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 stick with standard 3Dmax. this split with a design version reminds me of the 'Viz' thing that was a failure. its just a marketing gimmick imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) It seems odd to me (not that I would expect anything less, though) that Autodesk after only 1 or 2 releases after getting rid of Viz, would now want to go back to two seperate products. It seemed to me that getting rid of viz was a step in the right direction, but now it sounds as if they are going to start going in divergent directions again. At the time when Viz came out, Max was considered too expensive for many people to get, and most of the animation features were considered unnecessary. So, Viz was introduced which was nothing more than a stripped down version of Max offered at about half of the price. The market for Arch Viz then started to expand rapidly (remember those days!) and Autodesk saw that what they were charging half for (compared to max) as revenue lost. So, they had to kill off a less expensive product, in order to replace it with a more expensive product. Personally I didn't really have a problem with it since I was a Max user pretty much through all that BUT to now offer two different products that cost the same amount is infuriating. Autodesk is assuming that we (arch viz) won't ever need the features that they will put into max for the game designers, and vice versa. Please, just let us decide that for ourselves... please! Also, to force us to choose at this point when we have no idea what the future releases will include is absurd. As otheres have mentioned, to say we were given the chance to test both versions out is also absurd because there is almost no difference AT THIS TIME. Sigh. Edited February 5, 2009 by Brian Cassil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markf Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Add my name to the list of those who are confused and unhappy about this. I love Max but this is a stupid way to treat your user/customer base. It seems like the people who make these decisions are actually trying to think up outrageous ways to antagonize their customers. It's like getting ratf****ed by the man (again). The only question now is how hard and how long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester_Masterson Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm on board with this discussion. Why split? Especially when they own Maya? I predict in the near future a Microsoft approach to 3D software. 27 product codes, 38 flavours, 79 issues and incompatibilities. I think I'll have those TUM's when you are done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 The rumour goes that before the 28th there will announcements about Max2010, and some information about the options that could influence your decision. So I suggest to wait before choosing !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 It makes me wonder why this program - so unstable that it is akin to a boulder being supported by wobbly toothpicks, has diverged into two ill-supported boulders. I thought the reason Max was so legacy-bound was because of lack of development resources. Well, here's an idea - devote your limited development talent to one solid, code-efficient, non-bloated product instead of 2 wobbly ones. I'm not a fan of wobbly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 The rumour goes that before the 28th there will announcements about Max2010, and some information about the options that could influence your decision. So I suggest to wait before choosing !!! alas my subscription comes due on Feb 19 Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckytohaveher Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 ALWAYS STICK WITH 3DSMAX! Any other decision will cost you more later.... Based on history anyway... Besides VIZ only ever had 1 or 2 better features -- and you had to upgrade again later anyway; thus, as with all things, stick with the leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 What makes it tough is the decision for us in Architecture firms that always go after LEED certification for every project that we can. Makes me think I should have Design for the aid of the lighting credit..... but I fear what features we'll miss out on if we stick with Design. hopefully that rumor is true and the 2010 announcement will help the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Smith Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) I'm peeved on 2 fronts...that I will have to probably end up buying both versions in a few years for multiple licenses, and that I will have to print two versions of each of our books. Either Autodesk simply doesn't know what difficulties they place on users, authors, and plugin developers, or they simply don't care. I think this situation is going to turn into something as confusing as the Bluray/HD-DVD battle, and if Autodesk is not careful, they are going to open the door for some other software developer who actually listens to what the industry is asking for. We all feel forced to use Max for many reasons, but that can end in a flash. Design seems like the obvious choice...however, to stand out in the future, good users will have to rely on more entertainment oriented tools to give their work more of a cinematic/artistic feel. Max is sure to get more of that attention. Personally, I will stick with Design, but I don't think it matters much because in a few years we'll feel compelled to buy both versions anyway. Edited February 5, 2009 by Brian Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markf Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I just talked to my re-seller who read something to me that he had gotten from Autodesk. I'm paraphrasing, but what he read to me said that if you fail to make the switch by the February 26 deadline all that means is that you will not be able to switch via the web page that the e-mail links to. After that time you can call your re-seller and make the switch, at no cost. I understood him to say that at this time one can switch back and forth between Max and Design at no cost and as far as he knows that will continue to be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 As long as the 2 versions are fully compatible in terms of file formats, plug-ins, and scripts, it doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that the decision to not make them fully compatible is now a lot easier because the first move is already in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankit4d Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Has anybody tried the Exposure lighting analysis technology in 3ds max design. Is it worth being a deciding factor to choose 3ds max or 3ds max design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markf Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I sent an e-mail to Autodesk customer support expressing my displeasure. I got a terese reply that said there would be a cost to crossgrade after February 26th. This is in direct contradiction to what my re-seller told me yesterday. I forwarded the message from AD to the re-seller and he is going to seek some clarification. I'll post the specifics of his reply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Here's the thing that is puzzling to me right now... What does Autodesk stand to gain from having two different versions? I don't see how this helps them sell more software, I don't buy the inevitable line we will get about dedicating resources (those resources could just as easily be pooled together to work on one product), and in fact this is only infuriating more and more users. For some reason they just don't want the design viz guys playing with the entertainment guys, and vice versa. WHY NOT!!! I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 the lighting analysis thing is rubbish anyway imo, if you are serious about lighting analysis you will get dedicated software or get a lighting consultant to do it. its like doing comp work in video post. what if in 5 years they discontinue 'design' or decide that you dont need advanced modelling or texturing tools as you dont do game or film effects leaving you with a box and a teapot (which will get scrapped in the next version as its not specifically needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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