Unbeleavable

[innerdream]

Since we're all in such a good mood I thought I'd share some more related info I received in an email from China yesterday. I was sent a bunch of images, 19 jpegs (here's 3 of them), then I replied and asked them for pricing and they gave me a pdf.

 

Similar to the quotes I got from India last week.

[LuckyST]

piracy has a lot to do with their low prices also.

[Fran]

I must advise you that the whole "3d business" is not to last long.

with idiot proof programs such as sketchup and artlantis advancing, and even professional tools such as mental ray getting simpler by the day (even the vray sun/sky), the whole industry is getting cheaper, with only the programming firms benefiting (thanks to broader audiences).

3d studio has advanced enormously in the past 15 years, and the hardware became so cheap that virtually every one of us owns a render farm...

 

Well, this assumes that all architects and designers want to do visualization too.

[LuckyST]

I'm an architecture student...

 

and I can tell you that many students want to learn to do 3ds.

 

there's a big difference in Europe than in the states, because (as I understand it), here students are allowed to apply on different architecture competitions, while in US you need to have a degree to participate... so students hoping to get the prize (1000s of $) do their 3ds on their own (so far mostly in autocad/rhino)

 

 

As one of only few people here who makes good 3ds, I've talked with the dean, to form a class for the 3ds for me to teach. Since we're relatively small faculty (1100 students), it's surprising that I have more than 90 applicants already (and I've had the poll for only past 3 days).

 

(making me rethink my whole open source approach )

Edited March 9, 2009 by LuckyST

[Ian P]

I must advise you that the whole "3d business" is not to last long.

with idiot proof programs such as sketchup and artlantis advancing, and even professional tools such as mental ray getting simpler by the day (even the vray sun/sky), the whole industry is getting cheaper, with only the programming firms benefiting (thanks to broader audiences).

3d studio has advanced enormously in the past 15 years, and the hardware became so cheap that virtually every one of us owns a render farm.

 

imagine the technology to come in the next 10-15 years?

32 cores anyone?

sketchup with vray proxys and turbosquid?

 

 

does that mean that the public would be more educated to recognise a "professional" 3d?

 

I doubt it.

 

architects are pretty much happy with simple models achievable with sketchup@vray for their internal competitions, while the big investors who require the fancy photo realistic 3ds are to illiterate to notice the subtle differences and the increase in quality that is measurable in 1/10s of a percent...

 

we have to admit it... the rookies are catching up real fast... and who will care for the 1% of quality more we can offer for 20 times the cost?

 

I disagree computers aren't capable of creative thought or artistic judgement so the person using the software will always make the difference,

most people have had their own cameras for years, it doesn't make them photographers

[innerdream]

More good news, at least the render people got paid...I think.

 

http://www.luxist.com/photos/towers-in-trouble/

[BVI]

Since we're all in such a good mood I thought I'd share some more related info I received in an email from China yesterday. I was sent a bunch of images, 19 jpegs (here's 3 of them), then I replied and asked them for pricing and they gave me a pdf.

 

Those prices look relatively competitive. Those are inline with what a premium studio charges in South Africa.

 

There fee ranges between USD - $500 to $1,200 for a 3D illustration and $12,000 for a minute of animation.

Edited March 10, 2009 by BVI
Added prices from PDF.

[Devin Johnston]

I asked the company who's images I originally posted a few questions, these were there responses.

 

 

thanks for your email. following are the answers to your questions:

Can you tell me how you can afford to produce renderings so cheaply?

We being architects ourselves, have developed a modelling process that is highly productive and have an experienced staff with dedicated modellers, lighting and texuring specialists and post production [finishing specialists]. Our process is like a production house which makes our final products highly cost and time effective.

 

Does that price include the modeling of the project? Yes the cost definitely includes all the modelling. We would just need all plans, elevations and material specs of the buildings in ACAD2000/2007 dwg format, and we will take it up from there

 

What resolution would a image like the ones shown be rendered to, is it screen sized or large enough to print? The final image would be 4000 pixels wide at 300 dpi

 

What is the turnaround time on projects like these? Well it purely depends on the kind of project and your requirements, but a normal detached american house , exterior rendering would take 2 working days to produce. Hopefully that should give you an idea. Just to let you know we have a well trained staff of 18 people who can handle any kinds of projects

 

If you have any doubts about our capabalities etc, we would be glad to do a small sample project for you , completely free of cost, just to give you confidence in our services. Plz send across a set of CAD drawings of a small project and we will send you a rendering of the same.

[kippu]

ahh i recently got a mail asking for my prices after i posted a lot earlier in this thread ,when i asked the specifics of the project , he started asking if i am one of those 3d firms who charge less for the renders ...so someone was fishing around

 

on the other hand , third time this year a client from america has defaulted on the payment citing that the project has been shelved ... sigh ..que sera sera

[innerdream]

on the other hand , third time this year a client from america has defaulted on the payment citing that the project has been shelved ... sigh ..que sera sera

 

Tell me who they are and I'll sue them for you. I have a lot of experience suing Architects for breach of contract and non payment.

 

Now when does the damn donut shop open?

[ankit4d]

I asked the company who's images I originally posted a few questions, these were there responses.

 

 

thanks for your email. following are the answers to your questions:

Can you tell me how you can afford to produce renderings so cheaply?

We being architects ourselves, have developed a modelling process that is highly productive and have an experienced staff with dedicated modellers, lighting and texuring specialists and post production [finishing specialists]. Our process is like a production house which makes our final products highly cost and time effective.

 

Does that price include the modeling of the project? Yes the cost definitely includes all the modelling. We would just need all plans, elevations and material specs of the buildings in ACAD2000/2007 dwg format, and we will take it up from there

 

What resolution would a image like the ones shown be rendered to, is it screen sized or large enough to print? The final image would be 4000 pixels wide at 300 dpi

 

What is the turnaround time on projects like these? Well it purely depends on the kind of project and your requirements, but a normal detached american house , exterior rendering would take 2 working days to produce. Hopefully that should give you an idea. Just to let you know we have a well trained staff of 18 people who can handle any kinds of projects

 

If you have any doubts about our capabalities etc, we would be glad to do a small sample project for you , completely free of cost, just to give you confidence in our services. Plz send across a set of CAD drawings of a small project and we will send you a rendering of the same.

 

Is It Fair to ask a professional Firm, these questions just to publish it in this forum. Is that firm Aware that you will publish there answers in this forum?

[ankit4d]

Since we're all in such a good mood I thought I'd share some more related info I received in an email from China yesterday. I was sent a bunch of images, 19 jpegs (here's 3 of them), then I replied and asked them for pricing and they gave me a pdf.

 

Is this some sort of Advertisment from Chinese firm. I can see contact information in pdf.

Even i am getting inquiries for quote from readers of this thread......

[leoA4D]

Tell me who they are and I'll sue them for you. I have a lot of experience suing Architects for breach of contract and non payment.

 

Hmmm. Clever publicity. ;|

 

Leonard

[Devin Johnston]

Is It Fair to ask a professional Firm, these questions just to publish it in this forum. Is that firm Aware that you will publish there answers in this forum?

 

Is it fair for these companies to under cut the US market by 900%, did I ask them to send me any spam e-mails? No stipulations were ever put into any correspondents they sent me and I haven't and won't disclose their name so I see no problem in sharing information that anyone can obtain and it has no impact on their business.

[Fran]

Is it fair for these companies to under cut the US market by 900%, ...

 

It's fair. It's just not nice.

 

But this does make me think about Standard Oil (aka Esso, then Exxon). Back before there were laws against it, they would open a gas station in a town and sell the gas at a huge loss to undercut the prices of the mom and pop gas stations and run them out of business. Then, when they were the only gas station around, they jacked their prices way above what their competitors had been charging.

[Tim Nelson]

I asked the company who's images I originally posted a few questions, these were there responses...

Wow sounds good to me. Maybe I will start using them! Now I just have to find out what company that is...

[innerdream]

Hmmm. Clever publicity. ;|

 

Leonard

 

I believe if you want better clients e.g. one's that don't screw you you have to make a stand. Otherwise you'll continue to get the shaft.

[leoA4D]

I believe if you want better clients e.g. one's that don't screw you you have to make a stand. Otherwise you'll continue to get the shaft.

 

OT (Sorry!)

 

This and your original sentiment are not wrong, however, about 30% of all architectural firms in the U.S. are in court every year and they, and most other parties in the construction industry, will not go near any litigious individual/company/firm. Is it healthy to market yourself as litigious?

 

It was a tip.

 

Leonard

 

Back to topic.

[anindia]

I've considered doing this more than once

How much money did you agree to pay them in those jobs???? was it a little less than the money that you are actually getting (some amount that is at per your standard for similar jobs) or a 1/10 fractions of that or less?????

can you give me this answer - what is the standard rate/quotation?

look at the post at same thread,

Those prices look relatively competitive. Those are inline with what a premium studio charges in South Africa.

 

There fee ranges between USD - $500 to $1,200 for a 3D illustration and $12,000 for a minute of animation.

It might be a 1/3 than your quotes. if some south African firm starts to do US jobs tomorrow - will he be asked the same questions from you in every 3 months?

Is It Fair to ask a professional Firm, these questions just to publish it in this forum. Is that firm Aware that you will publish there answers in this forum?

fair????? not at all. i was asked to do jobs several times from people of this forum also,even some times i was asked to lower my rates - (i really hate this word competitive) huh! but i never think of publishing those conversations on the board.

[innerdream]

OT (Sorry!)

 

This and your original sentiment are not wrong, however, about 30% of all architectural firms in the U.S. are in court every year and they, and most other parties in the construction industry, will not go near any litigious individual/company/firm. Is it healthy to market yourself as litigious?

 

It was a tip.

 

Leonard

 

Back to topic.

 

I've been in this business too long, I don't want clients like that. I'd rather do something else for a living.

 

end rant/

[Big Bird]

Is this some sort of Advertisment from Chinese firm. I can see contact information in pdf.

Even i am getting inquiries for quote from readers of this thread......

 

Not sure if your asking but, yes the Chinese brochure is an advertisement, but my intentions were not to promote them, I was sharing the info to help us see something for reference to the original post by Maxer as I very recently recieved that email. This one (The Chinese Company) actually seems within a 'reasonable' range, and dare I say unexpectedly high for a Chinese company. I suspect they contacted me with the hopes of becoming my outsource source. Exposing this I think actually makes us more competitive in the US and shows not everyone is selling $99 renderings. However, I completely empathize with Maxer. I too feel threatened by outsourcing and I am quickly looking for the EXIT.

[ronyuni]

Are we in develop country are so cheap?

Yes we are..

 

in 2000, i can make people amazed with only a basic rendering.. Only a very few designer knows how to produce 3d rendering. That’s when this kind of jobs offering a good income for me.

 

in 2004, pirate software are everywhere, and it's very easy for everyone to get. (Pirate cd/dvd, or by some internet storage hosting). Everyone now can get very expensive software at $2, even less. Now everyone can make 3d rendering, even a student in 9 grades, can produce 3d image.

 

Present day,

90% of 3d designer in my country using pirate software, texture, 3d models, etc.

almost everyone can produce a nice vray rendering, a very realistic rendering. not like the image from these first posting.

 

it's very, very realistic rendering.

just search Google, key: Indonesia vray

 

 

but yes.. Pirate software ruins our price market.

These days, a very good viz, only charge $500 for a packet of 3 rendering.

Regular 3d designer charge about $150 for a medium quality rendering.

a new comers are more brutal, $50 for a single rendering.:mad:

 

10%, those who use legit software are overseas job oriented. that’s only how they survive, even that they only get paid about $500 for a single rendering, but it’s a lot of money, considering that's how they get paid in architectural firm in 1 month salary for 2 days work.

The economic crises are making it even worse.

Property are collapsed fist. A lot of project cancel, or on hold. Everyone now searching for overseas project.

 

Me, myself, lost interest in these job field, because it’s pay so low.

[innerdream]

Me, myself, lost interest in these job field, because it’s pay so low.

 

+1

[ihabkal]

It's fair. It's just not nice.

 

But this does make me think about Standard Oil (aka Esso, then Exxon). Back before there were laws against it, they would open a gas station in a town and sell the gas at a huge loss to undercut the prices of the mom and pop gas stations and run them out of business. Then, when they were the only gas station around, they jacked their prices way above what their competitors had been charging.

 

I lived in Toledo, and I felt nice, but when I visited Sumerset in Pennsylvania, I fell in love with it because of all the mom and pop shops. Everything was different, and not a copy. I hate seeing McDonalds at every corner. I love individualism. Personality should show through in your store.

[ikinman]

There seems to be a pernicious fetish with 'bootleg software' on this and other threads, as if that is the sole difference in pricing between the U.S. and countries such as India. How much are you paying for software? To get a copy of CAD, Max with Vray, Photoshop and a bunch of plugins, costs, what, 8-10 grand tops? That would in fact be the difference between a $3,000 rendering and a $300 rendering, if you only did 3 renderings your first year. And once you have that license, you have it forever - updates or subscriptions cost a fraction of that up-front cost.

 

The difference in pricing is in labor costs, not capital expenditures. Illustration is a service industry, and not a capital intensive one. If your software costs are more than 10% of your expenses, then you're not doing something right.

 

People in India and elsewhere are willing to work for less money, in large part because it takes less money to live there. If you're competing on price with people (wherever they may be) who are willing to work for less, then you will loose. So the answer would be to compete on something other than price, or find another less price-competitive field.

 

It's interesting to note that while renderings may cost a tenth in places like India, animations don't. And I don't get any spam from companies abroad trying to do interactive productions, such as marketing center kiosks and the like.