Devin Johnston Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 How much money did you agree to pay them in those jobs???? was it a little less than the money that you are actually getting (some amount that is at per your standard for similar jobs) or a 1/10 fractions of that or less????? can you give me this answer - what is the standard rate/quotation? look at the post at same thread, I've never used this or any other outsourcing company, my comment was meant to be humorous and ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) People in India and elsewhere are willing to work for less money, in large part because it takes less money to live there. If you're competing on price with people (wherever they may be) who are willing to work for less, then you will loose. So the answer would be to compete on something other than price, or find another less price-competitive field. to elaborate lowering prices because of using cracked software is not always the case. In Lebanon a car costs 40% more than it costs in the US. I drive a Grand Cherokee Jeep that I bought for 20 thousand dollars, the same jeep costs a little over 10 thousands in the US. I live with my family in a nice appartment (middle income level). My kids school costs $5000/year, and now his sister needs to go next winter. I live in a troubled country with wars every two years, we do have poverty but people have pride here. People want to live a nice life in Lebanon despite the hardships in life here. BUT: Lebanese architects returning from Dubai say that Indian architects live 10 souls per apartment, and share all the costs of living, they don't eat fancy food, they don't spend money, they save for their families in India. And they are asking for much lower salaries and ruining the Dubai employment market. I always say a Mercededs costs the same everywhere. If you want to live a fancy life, you need a good income wherever you live. If you accept to make little money and live in a crappy house with 9 others, never have a wife or kids, then I am not stopping you. If you want to put value on your work, drive a nice car and live life then you need to charge more for your time. Cracked software plays a little role, it is the "acceptance" for the individuals to always remain at the bottom of society financially that causes these low prices. Mercedes costs more in thrid world countries. Computers cost more in Lebanon. Schools are not free, hospitals don't welcome you if you don't have money or insurance in Lebanon. Edited March 12, 2009 by ihabkal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippu Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 can you guys let this thread die out , i just feel its moving into a very different direction , starting from a company now you are starting to clump the whole country into one generalization ..please let it get buried .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 . . . I drive a Grand Cherokee Jeep that I bought for 20 thousand dollars, the same jeep costs a little over 10 thousands in the US . . . I presume you're talking 'used' because the msrp on a new Grand Cherokee is $31,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanSpaulding Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 But this does make me think about Standard Oil (aka Esso, then Exxon). Back before there were laws against it, they would open a gas station in a town and sell the gas at a huge loss to undercut the prices of the mom and pop gas stations and run them out of business. Sounds like Wal Mart to me...and I ****ing HATE Wal Mart/Sams Club. One of the most evil, greedy, and destructive forces in the world right now. I'm so tired of CEOs, corporations, and shareholders controlling things. I'd be so militant in punishments for those who let their greed exploit others. So very, very militant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I presume you're talking 'used' because the msrp on a new Grand Cherokee is $31,000. yes used. 2004 model, I bought it in 2008. Runs great, but the roads here are hard even on SUVs. too many holes and bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoA4D Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Sounds like Wal Mart to me...and I ****ing HATE Wal Mart/Sams Club. One of the most evil, greedy, and destructive forces in the world right now. I'm so tired of CEOs, corporations, and shareholders controlling things. I'd be so militant in punishments for those who let their greed exploit others. So very, very militant. I will not say anything. I will not not join in. I will not say anything. I will not not join in. I will not say anything. I will not not join in. It is hard. Leonard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 What was this thread about again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 What was this thread about again? Opening a donut shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Opening a donut shop. I'm so there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 What was this thread about again? Autodesk. And opening a donut shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Autodesk opening a donut shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Cassil Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Autodesk opening a donut shop. Literal LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedogok Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Autodesk opening a donut shop. Will a yearly subscription be required? Price per donut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Will a yearly subscription be required? Price per donut? They come in 2 flavors: standard donut and design donut. They are the same, but different. Which do you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) They come in 2 flavors: standard donut and design donut. They are the same, but different. Which do you choose? the one that will make you feel better tomorrow..... oh wait there's no way to know! AHHHHHHHH NOOOOO!!!! Edited March 12, 2009 by BrianKitts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 the one that will make you feel better tomorrow..... oh wait there's no way to know! AHHHHHHHH NOOOOO!!!! Please tell me you didn't just render that image! And if you did, where's the donut in his hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 If we are going to generalize.... The U.S. visualization market on average produces lower quality renderings than many of the foreign markets, but still wants a premium fee for them. ...on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 the one that will make you feel better tomorrow..... oh wait there's no way to know! AHHHHHHHH NOOOOO!!!! Did you outsource that rendering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulctrla Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Its all very well charging that sort of money, and showing what sort of jobs you can get for that money, but I have yet to see anyone who has come out and said: "Yes I get these guys to do all my renderings, and the quality is that good every time, the working relationship is great, and they always interprete my ideas correctly and on time".. Once someone does that, then I think it would be bad news. I have tried to run a back office in a former soviet republic where wage bills are lower but (not cheap) and it is very difficult without being there to manage the work these people do. Sadly I do not hold the quality in high regard and the accuracy is frightening. Jobs I would not dare say are half done are sent as final issue and the delay and time take to get the results I demand just mean its better to get a proper artist to do it. Notice I use the word artist - Im not talking about techies who got the fastest machine with all the plugins and software.... Im talking about artists who can light and compose a shot properly - What happened to people wanting images that are artistically dramatic and illustrations that sell a development. Back in the day Arch Illustrators got on with it and produced images which sold developments. They didn't blame their brushes for leaving bristles on the paper or for the limitations in their work. They required talent and skill to do the work. 3D illustration is the same.... Composition lighting and anything non generic that you require cannot be doing properly without an eye for art. I dont care which version of vray your running or where you got it from Legal or otherwise.... I do think we have our hands full with the emerging markets where EULA means nothing to the people and the governments that preside over the people. When people are starving and living in the street - when more than 50% of people live in abject poverty - the government has more on its hands than EULA. I can understand this BUT at the same time - in places where we are subject to legislation we cannot compete with people who can pretty much do what they want as long as they can cobble enough money together to buy a PC in the first place. All I know is - quality is key - sure cost matters because if your 10x more expensive than the next man - unless your offering something pretty damn special your competitor will get the job. As an architect and comissioner of arch viz - those images do not appeal to me in the slightest - yeah they are good but the fact it cost $100 or $200 to do doesnt have me reaching for the phone or feverishly searching for their contact details.... That email would go in the bin with all the other crap I get. I use people I know and trust. The same reason our clients come back time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have tried to run a back office in a former soviet republic where wage bills are lower but (not cheap) and it is very difficult without being there to manage the work these people do. Sadly I do not hold the quality in high regard and the accuracy is frightening. Jobs I would not dare say are half done are sent as final issue and the delay and time take to get the results I demand just mean its better to get a proper artist to do it. Notice I use the word artist - Im not talking about techies who got the fastest machine with all the plugins and software.... Im talking about artists who can light and compose a shot properly - What happened to people wanting images that are artistically dramatic and illustrations that sell a development. Back in the day Arch Illustrators got on with it and produced images which sold developments. They didn't blame their brushes for leaving bristles on the paper or for the limitations in their work. They required talent and skill to do the work. 3D illustration is the same.... Composition lighting and anything non generic that you require cannot be doing properly without an eye for art. I dont care which version of vray your running or where you got it from Legal or otherwise.... I was just emailing back and forth with a friend, and the topic is somewhat related to this post... No, not at all. You have content, and you know how to use it. You passed that content, or helped install the Joomla in this case, and then let them figure out how to use it. If they succeed it is good for everyone, including you. If they fail, it is just good for you. Meaning that if they succeed it pushes quality and demand higher for the product. If they fail, then they have to higher you to produce the high quality. Maybe it is a naive way of looking at it on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Forreal Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) nevermind Edited March 14, 2009 by derekforreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 One of my favourite lines from a Detective novel (a Harry Bosche story): Guy #1: "Maybe we'll get some press censorship laws like they have in Canada..?" Harry Bosche: "Yeah, and maybe we'll start serving That Round Bacon like they have up there, too..." Hmmm... Bacon. There's a Mom-n-Pop take-a-way shop in a really small "town" in rural Australia that serves porkchop sandwiches ... bacon is extra. I call it the "Walking Heart Attack" special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian P Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 'There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.' John Ruskin Saw that in a sandwich shop seemed appropriate for this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I take it everyone on this thread is happy then? This thread is BRILLIANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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