Jez(UK) Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I used to do 3D Visuals for Office Furniture manufacturers / Interior Designers etc, and am thinking of a comeback after a good few years absence. I have 3DS Max Design 2009 (with subscription) and AutoCAD LT 2009 (with sub.).. I'm looking at upgrading my computer (most possibly to a i7 or dual i7 when that comes out) - currently have a 3 year old Dual Xeon (nice machine but board / proc / ram need upgrading, other components are v.good). Back when I was producing 3D visuals my work was up there with the v. best. But that was a long time ago and I did used to work absurd insane hours to make those visuals have the 'wow' factor. What advice / tips could anyone give to someone who can produce these sorts of visuals but doesn't want to make the same mistakes as last time (i.e. working overnight / life all out of balance/ burning myself out) - are there books / techniques nowadays which can help turnaround images much more quickly ?? Or does burning the midnight oil come with the turf ?? Or am I the only one ??!!! I see that there is a book out specifically for 3DS Max for Architectural Visualisation - can anyone recommend that book ??? Or another ?? Thanks in anticipation. Jez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 What advice / tips could anyone give to someone who can produce these sorts of visuals but doesn't want to make the same mistakes as last time (i.e. working overnight / life all out of balance/ burning myself out) The industry has changed a lot in the last few years. Competition is fierce. Clients are more difficult and they have less work. I can't see how you can compete without making even greater sacrifices than before. You can try outsourcing all the production and focus your energies on sales. But, sales isn't easy and you will struggle with collections issues. My personal advice if you want to do 3d art is to go into the Video Game or Film industries instead. They are both growing despite the economic mess that we are all in. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 My personal advice if you want to do 3d art is to go into the Video Game or Film industries instead. They are both growing despite the economic mess that we are all in. Good luck. And advertising, web, multi media - anything but Architecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yep, the next 2-3 years is going to be very tough for this field, starting up a new business is going to be even harder. If you really want to get back in look at large firms and see if any of them need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The All-Nighter is always waiting for you in this line of work. Run Away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STRAT Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 i agree with the above. coming back into the archi-cg field, especially now, especially in the UK, is almost a non-starter. hard just isn't the word. you'll either be working your socks off (not doing the work as such but marketing and securing work) or doing next to nothing as there's not much work to be had. freelancing or getting employment within an established firm will be equally as difficult i fear, but you must do what you will and i wish you the best of luck. there is work out there And yeah, all nighters still exist. not as much as they commonly did, but it's still part of the territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawla Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The All-Nighter is always waiting for you in this line of work. Run Away. All-Nighter... R u talking about a night out partying. Architectural Visualization cannot be done after sunset. Come discover a fun filled vocation with all the goodies thrown in for free. Best of all you don't even need to pay for some of the holidays. Sarcasm Intended Anuj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 working holidays and weekends, up till the end of last year when I "fired" one of my clients, the worst client ever, now less work, more relaxed. less money but who needs money when they don't have a life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Johnson Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I put in all nighters because I want to do (comp-sci) research, not because I have to. I'm on a different path though, since I'm always studying the source code (for max), and doing different things relating to feature work for 3ds max. I was in the Architectural business though years ago. For me competition wasn't so bad actually. My best friend was a fellow 3d guy doing architectural renderings, so we were directly competing against each other. But we were best friends, and still are, though I'm not in the business anymore. For those of you who are: 1. Protect yourself by IRONCLAD contracts with your clients. They so much don't even sneeze at you without paying for it. 2. No work until a deposit is made. 3. Send very low res work, or piecemeal renderings until you get payment in full. 4. If you charge less, they may respect you less. 5. I had one client who I did work for who only payed after work was delivered. I had a different philosophy, and so we didn't do work with each other anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez(UK) Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Thanks to everybody for their replies. I think I must have mislead some of you into thinking that it was purely architectural. In fact most of my work was for Furniture Manufacturers, next was Interior Design Companies and finally a very small amount was for Architects. I have come to the conclusion personally that working in 3D Studio Max full time would not suit me for the reasons I touched upon - if I were to do around 6-12 per year I'd be very content with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horhe Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Arch-vis industy is just not fun without all-nighters, and twisting your personal life in a knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am told by several friends that I actually like the All-Nighter. Call it whatever you like, but it's really just about doing what it takes to provide a quality service to your customer. If you can't get it to them when they want it, then there are 50 people behind you who will. Got coffee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I've pulled a few all nighters when I first got started in the bizz but that time has long passed. My feeling is that if you're constantly pulling all nighters your just not working efficiently, or you've seriously underestimated how long it's going to take to finish your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinsley Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I've pulled a few all nighters when I first got started in the bizz but that time has long passed. My feeling is that if you're constantly pulling all nighters your just not working efficiently, or you've seriously underestimated how long it's going to take to finish your work. +1 - this is a very good comment. Over the last 2 years since I got involved in Arch vis. my "all nighters" (sometimes for several inghts) have all but stopped. Its a 3 way combo of learning the ropes, lack of work now-a-days and partially because I chose to spend more time with my kid and wife... money is money but you only get to live life once. Work efficient (No Twitter!), give an honest quote/ schedule and don't punish yourself with obscene deadlines and pay just to get a job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I've pulled a few all nighters when I first got started in the bizz but that time has long passed. My feeling is that if you're constantly pulling all nighters your just not working efficiently, or you've seriously underestimated how long it's going to take to finish your work. Or the client calls and says "can I have an animation tomorrow?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Or the client calls and says "can I have an animation tomorrow?" This is were you tell them "no, our contract specifically states I have until XX/XX/XXXX to deliver it, unless you want to pay the additional fee it will require to complete it ahead of schedule". Clients will push you as far as they think they can until you start pushing back. Remember your not in business to be someone’s slave, there's no reason why these things have to be last minute pull it out of my a$$ projects if they are handled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 My comment was based not on clients calling to ask for early delivery, but asking for overnight delivery to begin with. Which seems to be happening more lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horhe Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) I've pulled a few all nighters when I first got started in the bizz but that time has long passed. My feeling is that if you're constantly pulling all nighters your just not working efficiently, or you've seriously underestimated how long it's going to take to finish your work. Or the client has paid you to work nights to make it on time. There is also an issue of working on a few projects at once, in order not to outsource... Edited March 25, 2009 by Horhe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M V Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 This is great advice! Can you please embelish on how you get your contract 'IRONCLAD'? I have a pretty good contract but I feel like I always end up blowing the budget because clients get really demanding and there's always time wasted due to their 'pickiness'. How do you handle additional services fees in your contract? I always require a 50% deposit but I find most clients find it hard to agree on final payment before they get their final images. Although, I have learned my lesson and been burned by clients that get their finals before payment and end up saying 'check's in the mail' and it comes 60 days late. I don't do it anymore and I was just wondering how you get clients to agree without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I had someone ask me if I could deliver 4 renderings in less than two days, I said "can't do it." I didn't get the job but I slept well. Sometimes no is the best answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 This is great advice! Can you please embelish on how you get your contract 'IRONCLAD'? I have a pretty good contract but I feel like I always end up blowing the budget because clients get really demanding and there's always time wasted due to their 'pickiness'. How do you handle additional services fees in your contract? I always require a 50% deposit but I find most clients find it hard to agree on final payment before they get their final images. Although, I have learned my lesson and been burned by clients that get their finals before payment and end up saying 'check's in the mail' and it comes 60 days late. I don't do it anymore and I was just wondering how you get clients to agree without hesitation. You need to be very specific up front, also If they are a repeat client you should be flexible but firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 In this economy it's almost impossible to have an ironclad contract. You simply can't afford to sue everyone that doesn't pay and you don't want to antagonize a client too much when they want to make changes. Your best hope is to never deliver a final rendering without a large watermark unless you have been paid in full. Also, don't start a project without a retainer and make sure you break up the payments into 50%, 30%, and 20% so that if the projects gets canceled or put on hold you remain ahead as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 This is great advice! Can you please embelish on how you get your contract 'IRONCLAD'? I have a pretty good contract but I feel like I always end up blowing the budget because clients get really demanding and there's always time wasted due to their 'pickiness'. How do you handle additional services fees in your contract? I always require a 50% deposit but I find most clients find it hard to agree on final payment before they get their final images. Although, I have learned my lesson and been burned by clients that get their finals before payment and end up saying 'check's in the mail' and it comes 60 days late. I don't do it anymore and I was just wondering how you get clients to agree without hesitation. A contract is only "Ironclad" if your willing to take the other person to court, I've never had to do this because all my clients have thankfully paid but I would do it if i ever had to. All clients are demanding, you have to know how to manage their expectations and make it clear in the contract exactly what you will be providing and what the cost will be. If they start changing things on you make sure they know that those changes fall under the heading of "additional fees" and let them know how much it will cost. A deposit is a good idea especially for new clients, but for those that have been around a while I usually don't require them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Or the client calls and says "can I have an animation tomorrow?" I was asked to do an animation in 3 weeks, I laughed said, no way. Eventually I said I'd try. Its now almost a year later and I am still working on it! jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 I was asked to do an animation in 3 weeks, I laughed said, no way. Eventually I said I'd try. Its now almost a year later and I am still working on it! jhv LOL. That's my new line "I'll try." As long as I get a retainer I'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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