viz.k Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hi Tomasz - you're of polish origins by any means? Welcome to the forums:) As for the topic - I won't be original, it's bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechara Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 YES! I was born in Warsaw and have been in USA since I was a young boy. I still speak polish well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw7 Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 I think that the market for individual renderings is pretty much over except for certain small bits, such as ultra high end imagery and (hopefully) excellent traditional imagery. This will result from the commodification of digital images, (witness cheap outsourced imagery) and the desire of many clients to 'insource' such work. What will not diminish is animation (for the short term) and especially multimedia. Interactive presentations, such as found in sales centers and the like, will become more and more common. So from a standpoint of opportunity, I would be focusing on that, and I believe that this is an excellent time to begin the groundwork for such work. Hey Ian. Long time! Good to see your name. Sounds like you've continued to get sales center work like the Station Place project I helped you out on way back when. Yes? In general, how many per year? I worked on one last year. It was a cash cow, and I'm targeting my own business towards getting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinman Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Hey, Mark, it’s good to hear from you. I hope all is well. Yes, we’ve continued doing multimedia work like Station Place (that was a while back…) and as you have noted, it can be pretty lucrative, though it’s a management challenge as so many different trades are involved. Since Station Place we’ve pretty much always had at least one project like that which we have been working on. It’s less of late, obviously, but we are still working with one client on a series of them to market their projects in different cities. Best of luck finding more work like that. As I’ve mentioned, such projects like that which integrate architectural illustrations are more of what I see in the future than the illustrations themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Eddie, this is an excellent thread and one worth revisiting as things have definitely got worse since you started it. Opportunities have really dried up due to many reasons. From my point of view: Australia - Dying fast and still a way to go. Middle East - Dead dead dead. Anything there is being snapped up cheap by whomever stayed. USA and surrounding - the phone is still ringing, people are getting more confidence but I dont expect we are going to see any major jobs for a long time. What hurts more is exactly what was mentioned earlier. People are trying out the direct approach to China and India. Most are getting burnt doing it but having already wasted so much time and money they cant go back. Keep in mind that we are all getting 2-5 emails a day from studios/outsourcers in China/India as it is, so you can imagine how many the architects are getting! For bigger companies this must really hurt - I feel for you guys at Spine3D. At least I have the ability to scale right back, get more personal with my clients and production has even dragged me out of retirement to work in 3D right now! I must admit that getting my hands dirty again is actually enjoyable. Marketing is almost futile right now as it isn't a matter of wanting a bigger piece of the pie - there just isn't any pie!!! Fees are down and we are concentrating on new technology and diversification again, which is good for us overall. A kick in the pants like this is often what we all need. And being kicked in the pants is what we have all suffered - I think I have been burnt to the tune of $500 000 with clients going belly up and disappearing over the last year and a half! I am guessing that for your scale of opportunity we are down on a 1. I dont think it will get any worse as people, especially Americans, are tired of the "doom and gloom". New people with new ideas are emerging - we just have to attract them. There are going to be companies that go broke or just get out altogether, sad but true. Unfortunately as this happens the fees are sliding downwards fast as companies do ANYTHING to stay in the game. I would love to see the obvious "middlemen" out of the picture altogether - the ones that have no idea about what they are doing and just pick up on cheap deals out of Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca23 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Very interesting topic this and is good to hear so many people getting involved in it. As for me im 24 years old, just out of university and wanting to get into the 3d arch vis industry. I did want to start up as a freelance artist as bigger companies arent employing but as the industry is fairly poor at the moment i dont know where to go or what to do? Starting to wonder if i want to get into this industry at all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerdream Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Very interesting topic this and is good to hear so many people getting involved in it. As for me im 24 years old, just out of university and wanting to get into the 3d arch vis industry. I did want to start up as a freelance artist as bigger companies arent employing but as the industry is fairly poor at the moment i dont know where to go or what to do? Starting to wonder if i want to get into this industry at all...... It's going to be a tough way to make a living I'd say. I would look @ games, film, TV, iPhone apps. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 For bigger companies this must really hurt - I feel for you guys at Spine3D. Hi Steve, Thanks! I agree with you on every point. You have a keen sense of the issues our industry is facing. Regarding bigger companies, we are hurting and facing many difficult issues. They are definitely magnified for us because of our scale. I would be lying if I told you I wasn't concerned. I think the only thing saving our butts is the momentum of our brand and some really good client relationships that we have developed over the years. We have also managed to cut our overall operating costs by almost 40%. Unfortunately, revenues are not turning around yet. I was calculating that things would improve in July, but some indications are that it won't happen until the beginning of next year. There are just too many clients out there with no work on the horizon. I think diversification, as you suggest, is a sensible thing to do. We are now starting to push web/interactive services and considering the game industry again. Congrats on being able to scale your operation. That's a smart move. Good luck to you and to everyone here at CGA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Starting to wonder if i want to get into this industry at all...... I agree with Innerdream (Robert) about industries that are doing a lot better. I still believe in the future of Arch Viz. I think it's a great industry, but the economy is shaking things up a bit. There are still opportunities out there if you have the patience and determination. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooner04 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hey Eddie, If you guys are looking to diversify, especially into games. Your Dallas office is in pretty good water. Gearbox software, ID software, and Terminal Reality are all games companies in the Dallas metroplex. You could also check out http://www.abunchofshortguys.org/ its a local non-profit group of various graphics professions, 2d/3d animators, post houses, game developers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hey Eddie, If you guys are looking to diversify, especially into games. Your Dallas office is in pretty good water. Gearbox software, ID software, and Terminal Reality are all games companies in the Dallas metroplex. You could also check out http://www.abunchofshortguys.org/ its a local non-profit group of various graphics professions, 2d/3d animators, post houses, game developers, etc. Wow. That's great to know. I was looking towards the San Fran market and didn't realize Dallas had so many game companies. I really appreciate the help. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooner04 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 http://gamedevmap.com/index.php?query=Dallas&Submit=Search this is the best resource I can think of for locations. Some aren't around anymore, some are casual games only, but its a start. Pick on one of the red dots to change location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Eddie, I'll give you a couple of other industry alternatives, if you haven't considered them- government simulations (DOD, military...)and engineering infrastructure. Check this posting over on our affiliate site http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=759269&page=3 and check out a Portland CG company, who's bread & butter is transit- http://www.nc3d.com/index.php/?option=com_content&id=110&task=view&Itemid=92 I'm certain you can compete in these areas, with the network of office you have in place. Also with all the promised stimulous money coming down the pipe there's some bound to flow to the viz side. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Staying with the world of arch viz... Is anyone silly enough to think things will be going back to the way they were the last 5, 10 or even maybe 20 years? This is the way things are and will remain so. Take in the fact the world is not the same. The future will belong to outsourcing. Not the much maligned China/India syndrome ...but to those who are flexible and with deep skills who are able to meet the market needs. The world of small and free lance come to mind. Architectural visualization is part of the BIM chain and the more of the length of that chain you know and can master, the more value you will have to the market. The people who buy viz services need not only the "go-to-the-guy" but also the "get-'er-done" and in an efficient and cost effective manner. Get more problems solved so more business can be done. You will have to be a very skilled artist, and very skilled technician, and a very savvy business person to survive in this business. This is true for all ventures and avenues in this new world. Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Dan, Thanks a lot for the links! They are very helpful. By the way, I cam across this government website. https://www.fbo.gov It looks like a centralized repository for all government work. I'm not sure if there is much 3d in there, but it's worth looking into. Regarding Newlands & Company, I saw there website a few years ago. They still seem to have a great niche with government projects. I bet their operation is doing ok. I think the key to finding that type of work is to have good contacts in government agencies and large engineering firms. These are areas that I weak in, but I will try to improve also. Thanks again for the info! Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Is anyone silly enough to think things will be going back to the way they were the last 5, 10 or even maybe 20 years? This is the way things are and will remain so. Take in the fact the world is not the same. You are correct. Things will never be the same and I don't expect them to be. I look at the future as an exciting challenge. It's not etched in stone on what that future will be. It's our choice to make it a good one if our feet are firmly grounded. Outsourcing and technology are powerful forces that are steering things right now. If we can understand these things and accept them then maybe we can use them to our advantage. It will be hard to do this as a single person, but as a team I think there is huge potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Unfortunately, revenues are not turning around yet. I was calculating that things would improve in July, but some indications are that it won't happen until the beginning of next year. There are just too many clients out there with no work on the horizon. I think diversification, as you suggest, is a sensible thing to do. We are now starting to push web/interactive services and considering the game industry again. I dont think we are going to see a turn around until next year. I see that the market has stabilized, but "stabilized" can mean at any level - in this case kicking along the ground. My scalability is what saved by behind and being able to go hands on again boosted the profits of work we do have (I must admit I am enjoying it too). So many people are pushing towards web and interactive right now, and it was already a saturated market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 So many people are pushing towards web and interactive right now, and it was already a saturated market. It's definitely saturated, but I think there is enough room for 3d companies to enter. I hear there not enough people that can do good Papervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 You are correct. Things will never be the same and I don't expect them to be. I look at the future as an exciting challenge. It's not etched in stone on what that future will be. It's our choice to make it a good one if our feet are firmly grounded. Outsourcing and technology are powerful forces that are steering things right now. If we can understand these things and accept them then maybe we can use them to our advantage. It will be hard to do this as a single person, but as a team I think there is huge potential. One of the advantages of being an old guy (62 years) is that you have seen it all before several times. There is nothing new under the sun as they say. What we are seeing is a great opportunity coming. (Alas most people seem to only recognize it going and not coming.) Arch viz is still very much here and more important than ever. We just have to realize how to implement it in the new world. The sky is not falling. It is opening up. Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 It's definitely saturated, but I think there is enough room for 3d companies to enter. I hear there not enough people that can do good Papervision. That is an interesting point and I am getting a LOT of enquiry on that issue. To be honest we haven't touched it - we have our own bag of tricks rolling out now. Definitely, that whole side can use a shake up but the big issue is the fees. People dont want to pay for quality web work anymore, which is why so many new sites are so incredibly disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 One of the advantages of being an old guy (62 years) is that you have seen it all before several times. There is nothing new under the sun as they say. What we are seeing is a great opportunity coming. (Alas most people seem to only recognize it going and not coming.) Arch viz is still very much here and more important than ever. We just have to realize how to implement it in the new world. The sky is not falling. It is opening up. Virgil Amen to that Virgil, can you tell us what you think the next few years will hold for our industry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Amen to that Virgil, can you tell us what you think the next few years will hold for our industry? I have a workload to get after so I will be brief and see if others come up with ideas. What I am thinking is what many people have already concluded. Let me leave this this moment with these thoughts. When I started teaching AutoCad (college level and corporate level) some almost 20 years ago the sky was falling. Hand drafting was disappearing and I was already teaching 3D model drawing. It scared a lot of people - many of which did not make the change and went out of the business. (architects and engineers) It was the end of their world. But the beginning for others. I started teaching Max about 12 years ago. That was novelty that in the age of affluence paid off. Now we are beginning in a more real era where efficiency is key. The whole construction (developing and financing as well) has been grossly inefficient. We have to do more with less and more quickly with more planning. Try to understand what your customer (notice I said customer and not client) needs and meet those needs. Don't just try to meet your needs. You don't get to do what you want to do. You have to do what needs to be done. Remember high school physics when they taught you about frames of reference? Use that lesson. Again BIM. Understand what that means and you will understand the change that has already come. And find "clients" who also understand this. They are ones that will survive and you along with them. Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Try to understand what your customer (notice I said customer and not client) needs and meet those needs. Don't just try to meet your needs. You don't get to do what you want to do. You have to do what needs to be done. I agree and I think that as a result a large part of the work we do for architects has become a "commodity". I realize that sounds like a 4 letter word here, but our art has taken the back seat to a large extent. It's unfortunate. Regarding the future of our industry, I would like to add that there will need to be some consolidation. Even though people here predict the demise of large 3d companies, I would like to argue the opposite. Economies of scale will allow bigger studios to control larger chunks of the market. Their focus might not be strictly 3d. These companies might offer a combination of Arch Viz, BIM, Reprographics, IT, and Staffing services. They will be huge one-stop-shops. They might not be pretty, but they will be viable companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Regarding the future of our industry, I would like to add that there will need to be some consolidation. So Eddie, you want to set up a shop in Savannah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Johnson Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I agree and I think that as a result a large part of the work we do for architects has become a "commodity". I realize that sounds like a 4 letter word here, but our art has taken the back seat to a large extent. It's unfortunate. Regarding the future of our industry, I would like to add that there will need to be some consolidation. Even though people here predict the demise of large 3d companies, I would like to argue the opposite. Economies of scale will allow bigger studios to control larger chunks of the market. Their focus might not be strictly 3d. These companies might offer a combination of Arch Viz, BIM, Reprographics, IT, and Staffing services. They will be huge one-stop-shops. They might not be pretty, but they will be viable companies. yes you are right on the target the small shops and freelancers are for the niche markets like art visualizations but the big picture is just as you see it the big shops will do the big jobs as a business providing one stop service for a range of needs perhaps they will be big enough to have enough work for one or two arch viz artists but the bulk of the work will be as you see it Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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