Please help me choose

[carlangas]

Hi all,

 

I need to chose between these two systems. I would go with the ZT systems but I know nothing about its reability as compared to a dell system. Here are the specs:

 

Both Systems have an i7 920 and vista home premium 64bit

 

ZT systems ($900)

 

-6GB DDR3 SDRAM triple channel memory (3 x 2GB)

-Power: 430 Watts

-1TB (7,200RPM) SATA 3Gb/s hard drive

-512MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8400 GS graphics

-22x max DVD±RW optical drive

-19-in-1 digital multimedia card reader

-No soundcard

 

Dell XPS ($924)

 

-6GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs (optional 8GB dual channel for $100 more)

-Power: 360 Watts

-640GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache

-ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB

-Soundblaster X-Fi Hi Def Audio

-Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability

-No Floppy Drive or Media Reader Included

 

Thanks for your help

[Bugga_Guy]

for $24 difference I would choose the dell - Having owned a dell in the past they offer a pretty good warrenty/tech support should a problem arises.

[AJLynn]

Those are pretty impressive deals. I doubt you'd notice much difference between them, so like Brian said, at least the Dell can come with on-site service and though they're no Apple, by the standards of the industry their support doesn't suck as much as it could.

 

Be advised that both those systems have a glaring weakness - power supplies. They've basically put in the least robust power supply they could get away with in those configurations. If you ever want to add more hard drives or upgrade to some high end video card, you could run into trouble.

[carlangas]

thanks for your input guys, one question though. on the dell system I have the option of getting 8gb of dual channel memory. how does dual and tri channel memory compare?

[AJLynn]

Tri channel is faster. Which XPS model is it exactly? If you go to crucial.com you will see more memory options - for example, if it's a "Studio XPS Desktop" and these are all 6-DIMM configurations (and btw, an 8GB 6-DIMM configuration is one of the stranger things I've seen from them lately) Crucial will sell you a whole 12GB for a bit over $200, or you could in theory pay a bit over $100 to replace 3 of the 1GB DIMMs with 2GB DIMMs and be at 9GB of tri channel.

[carlangas]

Tri channel is faster. Which XPS model is it exactly? If you go to crucial.com you will see more memory options - for example, if it's a "Studio XPS Desktop" and these are all 6-DIMM configurations (and btw, an 8GB 6-DIMM configuration is one of the stranger things I've seen from them lately) Crucial will sell you a whole 12GB for a bit over $200, or you could in theory pay a bit over $100 to replace 3 of the 1GB DIMMs with 2GB DIMMs and be at 9GB of tri channel.

 

The model is a Studio XPS, for the memory options it only gives me these 3 options:

 

-6GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs [included in Price]

-8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs [add $100]

-12GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs [add $300]

 

also the complete price with shipping and tax comes up to $1,032 for the dell with 6gb tri channel memory vs $958 for the ZT, do you think getting the ZT and extra memory will be a better buy considering a slightly higher PS and bigger HD?

[Slinger]

Tri channel is faster. Which XPS model is it exactly? If you go to crucial.com you will see more memory options - for example, if it's a "Studio XPS Desktop" and these are all 6-DIMM configurations (and btw, an 8GB 6-DIMM configuration is one of the stranger things I've seen from them lately) Crucial will sell you a whole 12GB for a bit over $200, or you could in theory pay a bit over $100 to replace 3 of the 1GB DIMMs with 2GB DIMMs and be at 9GB of tri channel.

Actually there is a write-up on dual channel vs. triple channel. triple channel does not see a huge gain until you began to break over the 1333mhz barrier, so since this system is spec'd with 1066, it isn't a big ordeal.

 

 

If anything I would try to get some triple channel 1600mhz sticks but I don't think Dell PWS support it.

[AJLynn]

I couldn't tell you, I don't know anything about ZT. It would be nice if Dell had a 6GB - 3 DIMMs option but I guess they don't want you doing your own RAM upgrades, they'd rather overcharge you for theirs. ($300 for the upgrade when Crucial will sell you the whole 12GB for $200? That's practically Apple pricing.)

[luckytohaveher]

INTEL Core i7 OCTO-Core with Hyperthreading coming Soon!

 

I was reading the article today. Just imagine -- Task manager with 16 CPU graphs!!! I shutter at the though.

 

Maybe I will need someone from security, my psychologist, a role of Tums antacids, and a paper bag to breath into... I know a Yoga class should do it...

 

16 threads in native x-64 x86 mode... The second coming must be soon!

 

If possible, make your current setup work for now until the next product release cycle. In addition, the AMD phenomII is said to go to 5Ghz via overclocking. Not as powerful, but intriguing.

[BOXXLABS]

where did you read that?

 

I've seen recent confidential intel product roadmaps and I havent seen an 8-core i7 anywhere on it...

 

Are you sure ?

[Slinger]

I couldn't tell you, I don't know anything about ZT. It would be nice if Dell had a 6GB - 3 DIMMs option but I guess they don't want you doing your own RAM upgrades, they'd rather overcharge you for theirs. ($300 for the upgrade when Crucial will sell you the whole 12GB for $200? That's practically Apple pricing.)

Yep, that is the one bad thing about Dell....the memory upgrade is way over priced!!!

[Slinger]

INTEL Core i7 OCTO-Core with Hyperthreading coming Soon!

 

I was reading the article today. Just imagine -- Task manager with 16 CPU graphs!!! I shutter at the though.

 

Maybe I will need someone from security, my psychologist, a role of Tums antacids, and a paper bag to breath into... I know a Yoga class should do it...

 

16 threads in native x-64 x86 mode... The second coming must be soon!

 

If possible, make your current setup work for now until the next product release cycle. In addition, the AMD phenomII is said to go to 5Ghz via overclocking. Not as powerful, but intriguing.

 

where did you read that?

 

I've seen recent confidential intel product roadmaps and I havent seen an 8-core i7 anywhere on it...

 

Are you sure ?

It's code name is Beckton

 

 

Confirmed:

 

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9471&Itemid=1

Edited May 4, 2009 by Slinger

[AJLynn]

So a web site called "Fudzilla" has better info than Adam? Something isn't working here.

 

Anyway. They say the chips will have "significantly lower" clock speeds. I bet that won't keep them from having significantly higher prices. This doesn't sound very exciting.

[Slinger]

I know the guy that writes for them. I also know a R&D guy who works for Intel. It has been discussed on the xtremesystems forums before.

 

Sorry Mr.Boxxman just isn't in the know on this one.

[BOXXLABS]

heheh - you guys are killing me.

 

What is said was "I've seen recent confidential intel product roadmaps and I havent seen an 8-core i7 anywhere on it..."

 

This is a true statement. There are no plans for an 8-core i7 that I've heard of or seen published.

 

What is being discussed on fudzilla and xtremesystems is an 8-core Xeon part that we have known about for a while and - like most other things - have not been at liberty to discuss...

 

 

Adam

BOXXlabs

[Slinger]

My understanding is that 8-core is an i7.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Slinger

[AJLynn]

He's got you, Chris. Adam and the article are both talking about Xeon chips. Core i7 only refers to the single-socket model. From the article:

 

At this point its unlikely that eight-core Nehalem will make it to desktop, as in applications such as games it could easily end up slower than quad-cores, due its lower clock.

 

As I said, not very exciting. This doesn't look like a good price/performance product for the workstation market. I have no doubt that eventually 8-core will become reasonable.

[Slinger]

***cough*** http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20090526comp.htm

 

In production later this year, the Nehalem-EX processor will feature up to eight cores inside a single chip supporting 16 threads and 24Mb of cache. Its performance increase will be dramatic, posting the highest-ever jump from a previous generation processor.1

 

***cough***

 

The Nehalem-EX Advantage

 

 

• Intel Nehalem Architecture built on Intel's unique 45nm high-k metal gate technology process
  
• Up to 8 cores per processor
  
• Up to 16 threads per processor with Intel® Hyper-threading
  
• Scalability up to eight sockets via Quick Path Interconnects and greater with third-party node controllers
  
• QuickPath Architecture with four high-bandwidth links
  
• 24MB of shared cache
  
• Integrated memory controllers
  
• Intel Turbo Boost Technology
  
• Intel scalable memory buffer and scalable memory interconnects
  
• Up to 9x the memory bandwidth of previous generation
  
• Support for up to 16 memory slots per processor socket
  
• Advanced RAS capabilities including MCA Recovery
  
• 2.3 billion transistors
  

 

 

 

It's a Xeon part yes. It is also built off the i7 platform and like the Xeons today but is made for servers. This will make one hell of a rendering farm.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Slinger

[AJLynn]

...that's what he said... oh, nevermind.

[Greg Hess]

More info

http://www.techreport.com/discussions.x/16981

[Slinger]

...that's what he said... oh, nevermind.

 

Andrew, read closer..."Nehalem-EX will provide tremendous scalability, from large-memory two-socket systems through eight-socket systems capable of processing 128 threads simultaneously without the need for third-party chips to "glue" the platform together."

 

Can we say workstation.

[Slinger]

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/6/7/exclusive-intel-skulltrail-2-is-based-upon-8-core-nehalem-ex.aspx

 

 

During Computex, we sat down with Intel and learned about V16, the successor of Skulltrail. The platform is based upon the dual-socket 8-core Nehalem-EX, not 4-Core Nehalem-EP!

 

Those octal-core 24 MB L3 cache Nehalem-EX "Beckton" processors won't be just powering those gigantic enterprise servers with 1 TB RAM per box. Francois [Piednoel, Intel's Snr. Performance Engineer - Ed.] was talking about yet another possible Skulltrail successor - a dual-CPU 16-core, 32-thread machine is what we mean. FYI: Francois is Dr.Who on the xtremesystems forums

 

A humongous 48 MB L3 cache fed by eight channels of micro-buffered DDR3 memory, up to 256 GB of it even on a desktop? Many OS and apps code paths would now nicely fit in that huge cache, but high speed memory would still be useful for streaming and HPC apps. Every Nehalem-EX Beckton processor has a quad-memory controller, e.g. 256-bit interface. With DDR3-1333, you will get 85.3 GB/s. But with DDR3-1600 you would get 102.4GB/s e.g. CPUs would have more than 100GB/s of system bandwidth for the first time in history!

As a bonus, you would still be inside JEDEC specifications, thus OEMs could qualify the parts with no problems. If micro-buffered controllers improve enough to hold up the 1333 and 1600 clock, seeing 100GB/s in Sandra 2009-2010 could be just a matter of time.

Today, the top desktop gaming machine you can get is still Skulltrail with eight cores total, not more than 16GB of hot and slow FB-DIMM memory and either ATI Radeon 4870X2 in Crossfire-X or nVidia GeForce GTX295 in QuadSLI mode. With Skulltrail 2, count 16 cores, 256GB of DDR3 and go with DirectX 11 hardware from ATI, nVidia or even Intel Larrabee graphics cards.

We weren't told of an exact timeline for introduction, but don't be too surprised if Skulltrail 2 or Intel "V16" ala Bugatti Veyron appears during IDF Fall 2009 in San Francisco, this coming September. All in all, Intel is planning one cool platform.

[AJLynn]

It's not a desktop. It's a workstation in a "Talk Nerdy To Me" t-shirt

[Slinger]

The original Skulltrail was for gamers. The new one will be the same using server chips and DDR3...no more FB-DIMMS needed.

 

It is a desktop.