AutoCAD vs 3ds Max modeling ?

[muzzy]

Hi Everybody,

 

My question is simple but can be helpful for newbies like me..I usually model with AutoCAD and then render in Max. Is there any difference modeling with AutoCAD or Max ? Which one is better ? Modeling with AutoCAD can increase the rendering time ? Has AutoCAD modeling any disadvantages to Max modeling ? Thank you for sharing your knowledge...

 

--------------------

--Muzzy--

[STRAT]

yup, do a search. this topic has been exhaustively covered

[Alex Ryan Rubio]

try doing a search here.. im sure you'll find that this topic has been answered a lot of times already in different threads.

 

hope this helps.

[hockley91]

Oui! Where to begin.....

 

Lofting....Mapping.....modifiers.....modifying.....lighting.......animating......plugins plugins plugins....etc.

 

I usually start out in Autocad, but I quickly move over to Max and model more things in it.

 

When I started out, I always modeled in Autocad. I would bring it in to Max and just texture map and render. Over time I realized that Max offered much more in flexibility if you mess up. If you solid model in Autocad, which I believe you are doing, you are kind of stuck with whatever you extrude or boolean. In max, you are able to edit objects and correct mistakes much easier than in autocad.

 

Now, I know autocad is catching up, and they offer more in 3D modeling, but it is still behind the times....

 

I think over time your going to find the same thing. It is overwhelming at first in the Max environment, but once your in there and you navigate and play around, you'll find some amazing and helpful commands in there.

 

The "help" command in Max and Autocad are very....well.....helpful! I would suggest you use those references.

[nisus]

just for the record, we only use autocad LT to import plans. All modelling is done inside max.

 

rgds

 

nisus

[hockley91]

Also, keep in mind that there is no "one" way to model and render. There are so many ways to achieving the same solution.

 

This forum is great for information about means and methods....

[joske]

just for the record, we only use autocad LT to import plans. All modelling is done inside max.

 

rgds

 

nisus

 

I second that, IF you know your way around max/viz modeling it is much quicker to model and adjust with the assigned materials from the start...

(for starters : you do not have to keep re-importing and assigning changes to the model)

certenly when the clients keep asking to make some small changes.

 

but the "IF" in capitals is very important here IF you don't know how to model in max, and you only know the acad workflow to model, you will loose alot of time

[jucaro]

WHY AutoCAD vs 3ds Max modeling ??

 

Why not AutoCAD AND 3ds Max modeling. MAX cant beat ACAD precision, but

ACAD cant beat MAX modeling tools.

 

Its meant to complement one with the other.

[STRAT]

i agree with jucaro - i model in both. mainly in autocad because of it's infinate precision (which max lacks) but i much prefer max's abilities to model organic objects and it's fine tweeking where verts are concerned.

[joske]

WHY AutoCAD vs 3ds Max modeling ??

 

Why not AutoCAD AND 3ds Max modeling. MAX cant beat ACAD precision, but

ACAD cant beat MAX modeling tools.

 

Its meant to complement one with the other.

 

first : there is no 'one' way, each person will have his own workflow that he prefers...

 

second : max is every bit precise than acad (this is a mayor misunderstanding with people who do not know there way around maxmodeling)

 

third : mixing acad- and max modeling will work, but will limit you to use the full potential of max modeling, and therefor might not always be the fastest or best way to work

 

and last : the only thing max modeling cannot do as good as acad is the boolean and solid stuff.

But that said : keep in mind that you will have to change your workflow alot if you only know acad modeling and want to do max from now on...

if you know your way around max modeling, you do not need solids or booleans...

 

Imhexp. it is alot faster to model buildings and architecture in max, based on 2D acad plans. this might not go for everybody however. It is up to you to find the workflow that's most suiting for your work

[STRAT]

max is every bit precise than acad (this is a mayor misunderstanding with people who do not know there way around maxmodeling)

i agree with all your points bar this one. Max ISN'T as infinately as precise as AutoCAD, which is the whole point of CAD. for example, in AutoCAD you can zoom in for ever. not in max you cant. and the more you zoom in to max the less smooth and accurate it becomes.

 

and i've been fluently modelling in max since it's pre-dos days.

[joske]

ok strat,

you may have a point there... but if you can be accurate until 1 mm, which you can in max, i don't see the point of drawing even more accurate if all you need is a nice looking render ?

 

for instance : i never really snap my windows to the wall openings, i just put a 2d facade in front view, and i edit mesh the window in place (no snap)

the window can intersect with the wall, doesn't really matter, nobody can see that anyways.

But it just goes a lot quicker that way

and ... no client of mine ever complained because his window was 1 mm off...

impossible to see on the final image anyways ... so i don't see the point of getting the window exactly and precisly right up to 0.05 mm or so... ??

 

even more if you copy the windowgroup together with the glass, handels,... with the right materials,... and then just start edit meshing the group to get all the different sizes of the windows : i don't see how you can can match that by doing this in acad, then import the lot, then (re-)assign the materials, then start changing again from within acad if the design changes...

 

again if you are more comfortable in doing it your way, please do... i have no problem with that, but it will be slower

[oluv]

why not rhino instead of AutoCAD?

 

rhino has such a similar workflow to autocad, it has the same precision, but is much more advanced if regarding modelling. the navigation through the model in 3d is really quick and easy in rhino. i could never do this in autocad. in autocad you cannot model using perspective view etc...

you can import original autocad plans 1:1 into rhino and model them there.

rhino isn't that expensive either compared to autocad.

now with the upcoming version 4, you will have lineweight, hatches etc, as you have in autocad, it will be a real substitute for acad. have a look!

[William Alexander]

Normal debate............

 

I understand Strat does a lot of face modeling. AutoCad is much better for stiaght face modeling. The snaps are the best and fastest I have used and here is where the accuracy comes into play- the snaps are dead on: very few problems with verts not welding because due to varied placement caused by snap accuracy. You can accurately place face vertices anywhere in space or in the workplane 1234, Max well you need vertices already in place & part of mesh, to snap the face to. Thata a big additional step. Overall Acad works well for very "clean modeling" approach. I guess face count is good if it's very high, you can show off machine speed .

 

It's about what you want to do, what your used to and basically user interface. Anyone checked out Modo yet? That's a kickin user interface that makes a difference. It does everything max does some a little better some not quite but fast-it just flows. Still don't know how well it will work for Architectural Work, but for hard surface organic it's the cats arse.

 

Cheers

WDA

[stefkeB]

When I model a building I use building modelling software. In my case that's ArchiCAD, but it could be Revit or ADT or others as well.

 

3ds max is a very good modeller, but the dedicated building tools from ArchiCAD make up for that by far (even with a less elaborated modelling toolset). And the building model I make in ArchiCAD is also a 2D-construction document at the same time, what is not possible in max. I do the render in ArchiCAD (when it needs to be done often) or in 3ds max (sometimes Cinema4D) when it has to look good.

 

But I don't do any freeform modelling and high-polygon work in ArchiCAD for sure. That is where 3ds max is much more powerfull: interactive modelling.

 

And AutoCAD? I stopped using it for serious work. I still teach it, though The snapping in AutoCAD is good, but (for 2d) it is beaten by VectorWorks and also by ArchiCAD IMHO, although AutoCAD is catching up lately. For 3D, the snaps in AutoCAD are more usable then the other two, but you have to leave the perspective view and forget about any interactivity in AutoCAD: you type some parameters, you enter and you hope it looks right. Undo. Try again... This was fine in AutoCAD r12 but it is ridiculous that is hasn't evolved much in 2004/2005. And the solid modelling tools in AutoCAD are usable, but so inflexible and they don't retain any history, so they are too limited IMHO.

 

Oh, and don't forget SketchUp: for exterior models (the facade) it's fast and interactive. Once you are trying to gives wall thicknesses, then you are not that productive anymore, though.

 

So use the right tool for the job. And stick with a combination that works for you!

[STRAT]

why not rhino instead of AutoCAD?

 

rhino has such a similar workflow to autocad, it has the same precision, but is much more advanced if regarding modelling. the navigation through the model in 3d is really quick and easy in rhino. i could never do this in autocad. in autocad you cannot model using perspective view etc...

you can import original autocad plans 1:1 into rhino and model them there.

rhino isn't that expensive either compared to autocad.

now with the upcoming version 4, you will have lineweight, hatches etc, as you have in autocad, it will be a real substitute for acad. have a look!

all what you say is correct. i too use rhino, but 1 major reason i dont use it as my main weapon of choice - the mesh it generally produces is a mess. it produces HUNDREDS of unnessesary polys and faces. you have no control over that. the essence over autocad or general cad modelling is the exact precise control over ALL you vertexes and faces. you dont get this in rhino. a typical rhino mesh is full of polys. not generally good for radiosity solutions.

 

converting a rhino mesh into a suitable max/viz mesh is also pretty hopeless where their nurbs curves are concerned. the only way to get close to a clean mesh is to bump up the face count to stupid figures.

 

as i say, i use it in my modelling, but only when i have organically shaped things to do. then it's in it's element. it matches if not surpasses acad for flexable modelling and accuracy, but it's resulting mesh, especially when normal slab facing is concerned, is a general no no.

[pixelperfectg]

I have a question about workflow. I use 3dsmax to create floorplans, but I'm not sure of the best way to create the 3d buildings from CAD files.

 

I've tried many different methods of modeling, here are a few:

1) Trace the CAD with splines (snapping enabled) then extrude the splines.

2) Trace the CAD with AEC walls.

3) Directly extrude the CAD file and add a shell modifier.

4) Poly model the building (start with a plane, convert to poly and extrude)

 

Should I look into other software that will extrude the CAD file quicker, then just import and render in 3dsmax?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

(If this is going OT for this thread, please let me know and I'll start a new thread)

[Lazar Jovovic]

AutoCAD is perfect application for drafting. Actually, CAD sowtvare is inviolable for this work. Studio Max is better than CAD software for mapping, lighting, modeling landscape, human, etc. AutoCAD and Max are complementary applications and I often used both them for the same job.

[Lazar Jovovic]

Try to do the plans of floor in AutoCAD, if you used this application, and then export it as 3ds format from AutoCAD and import in Max and finish it.

 

I have a question about workflow. I use 3dsmax to create floorplans, but I'm not sure of the best way to create the 3d buildings from CAD files.

 

I've tried many different methods of modeling, here are a few:

1) Trace the CAD with splines (snapping enabled) then extrude the splines.

2) Trace the CAD with AEC walls.

3) Directly extrude the CAD file and add a shell modifier.

4) Poly model the building (start with a plane, convert to poly and extrude)

 

Should I look into other software that will extrude the CAD file quicker, then just import and render in 3dsmax?

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

(If this is going OT for this thread, please let me know and I'll start a new thread)

[MrCAD]

my opinion bout acad vs max .. since I'm a very old user of acad since release 9 ..I can model much much faster in acad if flat surfaces like walls/windows/staircases were involved. For more complex things where curvatures are involved then max is much easier way out. AutoCAD with AutoLisp knowledge could change your thinking bout using max for architectural exterior projects...but the overall feeling is all the apps have got its plus/minus its just how well you use them. Speed counts for deadline projects so you have to be good at any one/both app you can complete the project in. I still love the old AME which acad had..some tools were excellent..but they are nomore there.

 

Meher

http://www.mr-cad.com

[Vince Paske]

regarding precision, max and rhino are single precision, auto-cad is a double precision program.

[Justin Hunt]

Once thing that I have learnt over the years is that no one app is the best, some do it better than others, some are easier to learn, others are able to handle large data sets. The only way to find out which works for you is to give each a go. At the moment I choice is Model in Microstation, render in Max using Brazil od MR. , mainly because I am only interested in the beautiful images .I want and need to produce them quickly.

 

I used to model exclusivly in Max, and couldn't understand why anyone would subject them selves to modelling in ACAD. Then I go a job where they only use Microstation, (modelling and rendering). It didn't take me long to get to grips with it and soon learnt to live with some of it quirky workflows. Although I still yearned to work in Max.

 

When Max go the File link Manager I was delighted indeed. I was able to produce the model in MS, save out to .DWG and link into Max. Worked an absolute treat. Then they broke the FLM in 8, which forced me to rethink my workflow again.

 

In my new job they use ADT. I have resisted for as long as I can to not using ADT. I have just started a large modeling project in ADT to force myself to learn it. I must say now that I am getting to grips with it I am enjoying the AEC modeling and the model is fairly clean when brought into max.

 

The things that annoy me with ADT are the screen navigation and the clumsy snapping workflows that are fantastic in Microstation. Microstation's "Accu snap" tool is problably the most powerful modeling tool in any app I have used, even if you do get RSI. The models are clean and very easy to manipulate.

 

I major issue I have with modeling in Max is the pathetic slowdown when snapping to any 2D data from ACAD which make modelling impossible.

[Antisthenes]

why not rhino instead of AutoCAD?

 

rhino has such a similar workflow to autocad, it has the same precision, but is much more advanced if regarding modelling. the navigation through the model in 3d is really quick and easy in rhino. i could never do this in autocad. in autocad you cannot model using perspective view etc...

you can import original autocad plans 1:1 into rhino and model them there.

rhino isn't that expensive either compared to autocad.

now with the upcoming version 4, you will have lineweight, hatches etc, as you have in autocad, it will be a real substitute for acad. have a look!

 

 

yes! that is also what i am saying.

it totally is a substitute for acad now i am using it to do all my 2d/3d work now.

 

maybe we can get a Rhinoceros Forum here at CGarchitect?

 

for the later post, incorrect, rhino has 16 units precision. accurate as all can be i know i use it to send water tight models off for FEA as the structural for a new revolutionary building system called SABS/Strata of 100% soy based EPS GFRC skinned walls floors and roofs..

 

and if you are getting to much mesh? adjust the mesh settings on export or go nurbs and let maya/max do the teselation of them .. OR stay in Rhino. i see no reason for leaving in the last 6 months not to autocad not to max.

[dpizarrom]

I have a very important point for why I think precision is important in 3DS Max for architects. I usually work with complex shapes, which are much much easier to create in 3d max than in Archicad or ACAD. The thing is that sometimes I need to cut the model to extract the lines and take those lines to continue working on the plans (elevations or sections). And the reason why I do this is because drawing directly using geometry would be to difficult or to slow. I would appreciate a lot a more precise 3ds max for that purpose. By precision I don't mean being able to zoom until forever or creating a 0,000001 mm object. By precision I mean being able, for example, to create a new object using as reference an existing one as ACAD or Archicad does, without haveing to change pivot points or stuff like that.

Edited August 2, 2009 by dpizarrom

[Peter M. Gruhn]

I just like drawing in AutoCAD better so if I'm doing archie work I'd rather do it there. Pop some extrudes, take advantage of the nice booleans....

 

And then gripe about the geometry in max.

 

I've started doing more modelling in max as I've learned more about polymodelling. connect, bridge, the little align x, y, z buttons... Hooray for all the tuts on the web.

 

I find I like max better for pushing ideas around. We'll see what I do next project I get.

 

Oh yeah... last studio project I got to a point where I just couldn't go forward. Finally I caved in and started working it digitally. Started rough forms in max. cut some sections and plan section, developed those in ACAD. The extruded the ACAD and brought it back into max to tweak and detail... The back and forth flow was nice.