The Prevalence of Cheese.

[innerdream]

I'd like to hear from guys in top 100 firms on this topic because it's one I struggle with. I'm fairly new to CG so this will be a learning exercise.

 

I see a lot of the bigger Viz houses generate images that I call cheesy. You know the ones, a flock of birds in the sky, a camera tilt for no apparent reason, soft focus and bloom effects, scantily clad women in come hither poses etc. Then there is the Maxwell camp which I see far fewer images like this, ones that utilize restraint and come closer to an image/photograph from a magazine of a real project.

 

I personally hate the Cheese but it's ever soooo popular. Why is that? Is there room for realism without cheese or are the clients we serve unable to accept a more sophisticated image?

 

Discuss.

[Devin Johnston]

I think there are only so many renderings one can produce of a certain type before it becomes boring, the "cheese" as you call it an attempt to liven up arch viz and make it more interesting to the average person. I don't see anything wrong with it, I've seen enough "Maxwell" images in my life to know that there are better and more interesting ways you can present a project. That's not to say that "Maxwell" type images aren't necessary, everything has it's place but I like a little excitement in my arch viz once in a while.

[innerdream]

I think there are only so many renderings one can produce of a certain type before it becomes boring, the "cheese" as you call it an attempt to liven up arch viz and make it more interesting to the average person. I don't see anything wrong with it, I've seen enough "Maxwell" images in my life to know that there are better and more interesting ways you can present a project. That's not to say that "Maxwell" type images aren't necessary, everything has it's place but I like a little excitement in my arch viz once in a while.

 

Better is subjective. My real question thinly veiled is, are clients capable of appreciating something like a Maxwell image or do they need the cheese to get excited? Forget what the artist thinks for a moment.

 

By the way I'm all for changing things up but if I see another flock of birds I'm gonna puke on my laptop...not pretty.

[Claudio Branch]

 

I personally hate the Cheese but it's ever soooo popular. Why is that?

 

 

Lowest common denominator thinking...if cheese will sell it, than cheese it is.

[innerdream]

Lowest common denominator thinking...if cheese will sell it, than cheese it is.

 

I think you're right. My old boss at Gensler was the cheese king because it was successful for him and the firm. Getting him to consider another approach was out of the question.

[Claudio Branch]

Now here's a thought:

 

If cheese is used to sell archviz, what do you use to sell cheese?

 

http://www.johnmariani.com/archive/2006/060611/velveeta.jpg

[Devin Johnston]

Better is subjective. My real question thinly veiled is, are clients capable of appreciating something like a Maxwell image or do they need the cheese to get excited?

It really depends on who the client is and what their tastes are, just like everything else there isn't one simple answer. I'd say more clients are expecting the cheese now, maybe it's because that's all they are seeing.

[innerdream]

Now here's a thought:

 

If cheese is used to sell archviz, what do you use to sell cheese?

 

http://www.johnmariani.com/archive/2006/060611/velveeta.jpg

 

 

End thread/

 

I think we'll all look back and think this period is just like the "new romantic" era in music, pirate shirts just aren't cool on anyone.

[Jeff Mottle]

I think there are only so many renderings one can produce of a certain type before it becomes boring, the "cheese" as you call it an attempt to liven up arch viz and make it more interesting to the average person.

 

Yeah, it's all a fad. Having just watched all of the submissions for the 3dawards there are certainly some new trends that I saw many of the flims/animations using:

 

1. Contruction/Decontruction of elements

2. Animated car light streaks

3. Turning lights on and off to music

4. Floating 3d camera-matched text

 

I'd say almost all of the submissions that made it to the final round (43 of them this year) had one of more of these elements. All of which will become cheese in a year or two.

[Tommy L]

Fads and Cheese have a simple explanation. It is really, really difficult to come up with something new. I mean close to impossible. So if you (as an artist) see something that you have not put in your work before and you know you can achieve it and t looks kind of impressive, you will try it. Even if only 10% of the artists try it once (birds for example), it will start to stick out as cheese.

 

I just wish I could come up with something new, something to set me apart, some indelible and un-replicable stamp of ME in my work. But with a digital format, thats tough. So Ill stick (like most) to taking elements that I like from others work and trying to make it my own.

 

Now where's that animated car light trails tutorial....

[innerdream]

I just wish I could come up with something new, something to set me apart, some indelible and un-replicable stamp of ME in my work.

 

Have you considered putting The Donald in all of your Archviz in sorta of a Vanna White pose?

[Jeff Mottle]

Have you considered putting The Donald in all of your Archviz in sorta of a Vanna White pose?

 

Haha, sorry. Been done, there were two submissions this year for Trump projects. Well, they did use the Donald, but one of them used the Trump font and sideways scissor-cut-slide-in that they used to use on the Apprentice.

[Dave Buchhofer]

Cheese has its place, Its all about sleight of hand, doing something flashy over here to draw an eye lets you not have to put as much painstaking detail over in that other corner over there, that noone has even remotely designed yet. thats the whole name of the game.

 

its a faster way to get to that (What i would consider personally) 90% quality that is required currently in many of the 'instant turnaround' projects

[innerdream]

Haha, sorry. Been done, there were two submissions this year for Trump projects. Well, they did use the Donald, but one of them used the Trump font and sideways scissor-cut-slide-in that they used to use on the Apprentice.

 

The Donald = A Flock of Seagulls. LOL

[leoA4D]

Marketing experts and advertising houses spend a lot of time figuring out what sells on TV or in print. They know their efforts will work or else they lose an account. CG folks often use what works in advertising. Example: forum threads about lighting will frequently have a suggestion to look at how an advertisement lights a similar setup.

 

Cheese begets cheese.

 

And then again, there are the Dennis Allains and Ernest Burdens.

 

Leonard

[3D_IC]

There will always be Cheese in paid digital CG work

due to clients requests. No matter how much

we hate it, we are here to adhere to the paying client wishes.

Even if it means putting the red ferrari in your image and having

big cheese as the license plate number.

 

TommyL: try the stroke plug-in for After effects from Trapcode to create the

animated car lights.

[Justin Hunt]

For me the biggest cheese in animations is the zoom down from space, problably one of the most over used and pointless sequences ever used. How many times have you come from the moon thinking," now how do I get to that shopping mall again?"

 

I think the biggest influence to the cheese propagation is forums like this one and others. We see so much work from around the world that it is near impossible not to be influenced by it. Sadly it is also makes everyones work look the same. It is very difficult to stand out because very soon everyone will be copying that new trick that made you stand out in the first place.

 

Heck lets face it Cheese Factor has been around since the time of the old masters of painting. Just take a look at religious painting. There were times when the masters had to take on such commissions to pay the bills, huge cheese factor in those paintings.

 

jhv

[STRAT]

I personally hate the Cheese but it's ever soooo popular. Why is that? Is there room for realism without cheese or are the clients we serve unable to accept a more sophisticated image?

 

Discuss.

 

i completely agree with your post, but, and in the UK particularly, the typical cheese image sells. It's generally what clients and planners like in the UK to forward their projects. It is restricting on the artist, but it's the client who's paying the cheque at the end of the day.

[innerdream]

This weekend I was looking at a design magazine and in an advertisement there was that girl in the bath robe sitting on the bed just like a rendering. So, the post about renderings following ads is right on the mark in this case.

The ironic thing is that some design magazines show very sophisticated photography, great composition, lighting etc. yet when it comes to renderings people bring out the gouda.

[Archiform 3D]

I personally hate the Cheese but it's ever soooo popular. Why is that? Is there room for realism without cheese or are the clients we serve unable to accept a more sophisticated image?

 

Discuss.

 

80% of clients want "cheesy" features. 20% of artists love doing "cheesy" things. Buyers, realtors, city authorities and pretty much everyone that views the images are embarrassed to even look at a cheesy image.

 

It's just like people in images. We did it a long long time ago and I think we were the very first to use a live presenter. But then clients wanted to fill the scene with as may people as they could. I would suggest that if they are trying to sell a property that maybe they should think about "intimacy" and not a whole bunch of people sharing what is supposed to be a dream home/destination. But they never listen.

 

Unfortunately much of what you see is client driven. The real opportunities to do something classy and emotive are often lost. I think we all need to cut two showreels - a cheesy one and a classy one, then you just gauge what kind of person the client really is before you show them.

[innerdream]

But then clients wanted to fill the scene with as may people as they could.

 

I always laugh at this because I live in a major city and never see that many people in front of a building! Unless you're walking in central London, Tokyo, NYC or the like you will never see 100's of people hangin out in front.

[Iain Denby]

Anything that becomes too popular turns into a cliche sooner or later. It's not the idea per se, it's the popularity across others' works that distroys it. If only one artist ever included a flock of birds in every piece he created, it would become a distinctive and recognisable feature of his work, and never a cliche.

 

The problem is when people use something they thought looked good in another image and apply it to their own without questioning whether it adds value to their work or not.

 

I have a copy of a 1980's architectural image done in pastels. This was the first time I saw a flock of birds used in such an image. But this one still looks great!

[Iain Denby]

I always laugh at this because I live in a major city and never see that many people in front of a building! Unless you're walking in central London, Tokyo, NYC or the like you will never see 100's of people hangin out in front.

 

Doesn't matter. It's about selling a concept.

 

Most car adverts show smoked black windscreens, but you buy them with clear.

[innerdream]

Anything that becomes too popular turns into a cliche sooner or later. It's not the idea per se, it's the popularity across others' works that distroys it. If only one artist ever included a flock of birds in every piece he created, it would become a distinctive and recognisable feature of his work, and never a cliche.

 

The problem is when people use something they thought looked good in another image and apply it to their own without questioning whether it adds value to their work or not.

 

I have a copy of a 1980's architectural image done in pastels. This was the first time I saw a flock of birds used in such an image. But this one still looks great!

 

Some ideas are just bad period. Flocks of birds belong in wild life paintings.

[innerdream]

Doesn't matter. It's about selling a concept.

 

Most car adverts show smoked black windscreens, but you buy them with clear.

 

I'm aware of that, it's still cheesy.