London 2012 and Crystal Computer Graphics

[Gander0]

http://www.london2012.com/news/archive/2009-03/crystal-becomes-16th-london-2012-commercial-sponsor.php

 

I'm a bit late on this but I would be interested to hear peoples thoughts.

 

As someone who lives in London (Though temporarily away.) I was never too keen on having the Olympics and I'm sure that amount of money could be put to better use. I do however understand there are some benefits for London such as the areas being regenerated and London's infrastructure.

 

Among the benefits we were all told about was of those to local businesses, as a visualiser therefore I was a little surprised that a Chinese company had won a bid to do visualisations of all of the sites plus opening and closing animations. (Don't know if this means everything.)

 

Anyway i'm not a protectionist and I guess its fair play to them if they they come in with a better price (Plus sponsorship!) but I'm still surprised the many highly skillled London or British studios don't get a look in.

[ihabkal]

not to mention the insane traffic. I would hate to be stuck there for the few days of the games.

In Issue 113 of 3D World Magazine they wrote "A study by Hoover's in 2007 placed Crystal CG on par with US studio Neoscape in terms of total revenue, at 7.1 million. THe firm employs over 1,500 people ...etc."

 

I really can 't find the logic in putting Crystal CG and Neoscape in the same arena : Crystal needs 1500 peoole to make the same money Neoscape makes with maybe 20 or 30 or 50 I really don't know (input from readers here is useful)

so 7.1 million divided by 1500 is 4733.33, so each employee made less than 5 grands per year. While each neoscape employee makes hundeds of thousands on his own. I really don't care anyway, whoever does the job or whatever comes out of it. All I want is pay my own mortgage. Funny though how people compare both. Neoscape has a UK office now.

[BillyElNino]

Anyway i'm not a protectionist and I guess its fair play to them if they they come in with a better price (Plus sponsorship!) but I'm still surprised the many highly skillled London or British studios don't get a look in.

 

I don't consider myself to be a protectionist either but the very justification for the outrageous cost of the Olympics from the Government is that the outlay by the taxpayer is fed back into the economy through the process of delivering the Games as well as the revenue generated during the event. If a Chinese firm supplies all of the visuals for the build-up to the games then this link in the chain that gets back our tax pounds is fundamentally broken.

 

What has happened here is that this is such a small sector of the whole package that the Government can save themselves a lot of money by outsourcing those areas that the public / media won't care about / pick up on. If the construction for the main stadium was farmed out with Chinese labour shipped in it would be a national outrage. (although in reality would save us a lot of money as its an illusion that we're going to see any of this money ever again)

 

What this illustrates really is that the Govt. promise on returning the taxpayers money through the process of delivering the Games is not the most cost effective way nor is it really going to add up and, with British firms probably costing a fortune, they have had to cut corners price wise where ever they think they can get away with it.

[Nic H]

pretty weird imo. crystal work is generally average, must of been really cheap.

 

what exactly does it mean anyway? a tier 3 sponsor?

 

there are loads of other UK studios that have done work or are doing work for 2012 amongst them squintopera (who have recently finished a second olympics short film due for release quiet soon) and smooth did a few stills for it a while back as well. there are probably quiet a few others as well i would imagine.

[Gander0]

ihabkal,

 

I think Crystal have a UK office too now: http://www.thinklondon.com/dynamic/who_weve_helped/case_studies/Crystal_Digital_Technology.html

 

 

BillyElNino,

 

I remember the original estimate of 3.4 billion making my blood boil, now its a mere 9.3, some nice calculations going on there, its hard not to get a little annoyed.

 

 

nic nic,

 

I think 3 tier is related to the amount of cash involved. Lloyds TSB is a Tier one sponsor, Cadbury is a Tier two etc. etc.

 

I think a lot of various companies did a lot of work in the bidding phase, as London won the bid you would thought they would know when they were on to a good thing.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Gander0

[Nic H]

can you imagine china getting a British company to do work on Bejing?

 

no.

[Tommy L]

Im no protectionist either as many other threads in cga will show. But I think if the British government is buying, using British taxpayer money, for the British Olympics and the UK economy is in the pan.......

Come on, buying abroad is not an option, cheaper or not. They should source everything on British soil.

 

I was just as pissed when I saw the Chicago Olympic bid using Chinese renderings. Our firm would have done it at cost or maybe even free.

[Jeff Mottle]

The thing to remember is that when it comes to bids on jobs as high profile as the Olympics, it's just as much about politics as it is about how much you bid. I'd be willing to wager that the owners and sales team from Crystal managed a great deal of political maneuvering to win that job. Even if a local firm could produce them for free, they still loose out over the prestige of a larger firm and one with owners that know how to play the game.

 

Politics + Average cost bid = Win

No Politics + Free Bid = Lose

 

They may not have undercut their bid as much as people think either. Sometimes politics and a good sales pitch can make the purchaser feel like they are getting something special, which in the case of the olympics is what that whole game is about.

[ihabkal]

The thing to remember is that when it comes to bids on jobs as high profile as the Olympics, it's just as much about politics as it is about how much you bid. I'd be willing to wager that the owners and sales team from Crystal managed a great deal of political maneuvering to win that job. Even if a local firm could produce them for free, they still loose out over the prestige of a larger firm and one with owners that know how to play the game.

 

Politics + Average cost bid = Win

No Politics + Free Bid = Lose

 

They may not have undercut their bid as much as people think either. Sometimes politics and a good sales pitch can make the purchaser feel like they are getting something special, which in the case of the olympics is what that whole game is about.

 

I agree. We see that all the time in the Middle East especially in Lebanon. Also in Dubai prestigious projects.

Jeff, you know so much, I think you too can handle the tough life in Lebanon.

[Tommy L]

The thing to remember is that when it comes to bids on jobs as high profile as the Olympics, it's just as much about politics as it is about how much you bid. I'd be willing to wager that the owners and sales team from Crystal managed a great deal of political maneuvering to win that job. Even if a local firm could produce them for free, they still loose out over the prestige of a larger firm and one with owners that know how to play the game.

 

Politics + Average cost bid = Win

No Politics + Free Bid = Lose

 

They may not have undercut their bid as much as people think either. Sometimes politics and a good sales pitch can make the purchaser feel like they are getting something special, which in the case of the olympics is what that whole game is about.

 

Guess so. My point was maybe lost when I mentioned cost. I just think the government should keep this particular job local. Especially in light of all the 'expenses scandal' currently overshadowing British politics. I nearly fell off my chair when I heard that MPs had expensed pornography rental and moat cleaning.

[Jeff Mottle]

Guess so. My point was maybe lost when I mentioned cost. I just think the government should keep this particular job local. Especially in light of all the 'expenses scandal' currently overshadowing British politics. I nearly fell off my chair when I heard that MPs had expensed pornography rental and moat cleaning.

 

Yeah, I can't say I disagree with you there. Cities usually go into massive debt for many years just to host the Olympics, so you would hope they try to support their own local and national economies, but this is a new and wonderful global world we live in. Anything is fair game for anyone, like it or not.

[Tommy L]

You know, as a fundamental ethical argument, I agree with you. If it were any where else in the world, I would agree with you. Financially, I am not sure whether 'keeping it in the family' is beneficial for the UK or not, an economist would have to answer that.

For some reason, my heart (I am English) just says it should be local. Rubbish, un-founded, un-objective argument though it is, and against the grain of my beliefs, Im just rooting for the home team...

Also, the UK govt is becoming so detached and remote from its people right now. I have conflicting feelings about this. Politics shouldnt come into it...neither should nationalism...however, is hosting the games also about showing what your nation can do? Showing the talent, initiative and endeavors of a nation? Not just what it can buy...?

[Gander0]

Yeah, I can't say I disagree with you there. Cities usually go into massive debt for many years just to host the Olympics, so you would hope they try to support their own local and national economies, but this is a new and wonderful global world we live in. Anything is fair game for anyone, like it or not.

 

I think the annoying thing is that they gave us so much shpiel about using local business when justifying the costs. When its your industry I guess it just feels worse when its actually only a small part of the bigger picture.

 

Tommy I totally agree, this sends out a very bad message for the visualisation industry in Britain as a whole. Instead of showcasing the ability of British studios, they are promoting another countries work in quite a massive way.

 

 

The porn scoop was a gem, gotta feel sorry for her husband

[Justin Hunt]

Didn't Crystal do the CG for the Beijing games? If so that alone would give them enough exposure and clout to win the project.

 

This aside, personally I think the Olympics has become too much of an extravaganza that the sport may as well be taken out of it. Sport has become the excuse and not the reason for the side show. Even the Sydney Olympics (which was considered one of the most successful) has left a huge hole in the budget, and allot of the venues are standing unused today.

 

jhv

[3D_IC]

The British government is getting worse with each leadership change which is why I moved out. I hate to see Britain go down the pan due to bad management. Not supporting national 3D firms in something as huge as the Olympics sounds about right. I bet there was a political pay off somewhere along the line. As there always is in politics.

 

Here in Australia there is a real pride in things being "made in Australia" and not overseas. Britain should adopt the same view in my opinion. The people have become so oppressed by the political police that "made in Britain" are considered dirty words.

[BVI]

not to mention the insane traffic. I would hate to be stuck there for the few days of the games.

In Issue 113 of 3D World Magazine they wrote "A study by Hoover's in 2007 placed Crystal CG on par with US studio Neoscape in terms of total revenue, at 7.1 million. THe firm employs over 1,500 people ...etc."

 

 

I don't think those figures are correct. I cant find the link, but I remember reading that their turnover is in $ 100's of millions.

[ihabkal]

I don't think those figures are correct. I cant find the link, but I remember reading that their turnover is in $ 100's of millions.

 

I double checked for you and it says "total revenue, at 7.1 million."

it is in issue 113, page 50, near the bottom left. I don't think they have that article online.

By the way they had on Lebanese TV a segment about the problems with the British Ministers, they also mentioned how they buy dog food with tax money.

[Nic H]

i am happy to see jacqui smith go. she is a horrid dog who needs to be tied up the desert with no water until she stops being being awful. hope to never see her in a posistion of influence again.

burn her.

 

[Gander0]

Horrid dog? Surely you mean English rose?

[Scott Erstad]

"A study by Hoover's in 2007 placed Crystal CG on par with US studio Neoscape in terms of total revenue, at 7.1 million. THe firm employs over 1,500 people ...etc."

 

I don't put a lot of faith in Hoovers, none the less I wonder how they define "study".

Interesting topic, it would be interesting to ask Crystal CG how they managed to gain the contract, as Jeff has correctly pointed out, it is not always the cheapest. I would hazard a guess that it was the scale of the firm that did it, to be able to turn around renders of multiple subjects in no time at all, for multiple venues, as well as animation. True perhaps not the best in terms of artistic quality, but certainly one of the most nimble. Artistic quality and cash may not have been key factors in the end.

 

Scott

[adamf]

I'm a freelancer working in and around London after I was recently made redundant. All I keep hearing is CrystalCG this and Crystal CG that, they are destroying the market in the UK.

 

The place I am freelancing at the moment told me that CrystalCG got the Olympics work because they are doing it for free just to get a foot in the door.

 

I have heard from someone working at Fosters that they are outsourcing most of there CG work to Crystal CG now because they are charging £400 an image.

 

The larger London studios (Millar Hare, Smoothe, Design Hive) are having to cut the cost of there images to a thrid of what they were charging. The job I am doing at the moment was also bid for by CrystalCG and the only reason they didn't get the job was because they weren't flexible enough, this was before they got an office in London.

 

I am honestly not sure how this industry can survive now they have set up in the UK, I'm sure they will use there better artists on the better jobs, gain more exposure and at £400 an image what Architects won't use them?

[EddieLeon]

I am honestly not sure how this industry can survive now they have set up in the UK, I'm sure they will use there better artists on the better jobs, gain more exposure and at £400 an image what Architects won't use them?

 

I think the industry will be fine. As soon as the market picks up the architects will increasingly choose quality and good service over rock bottom pricing. We certainly can't compete with Crystal's pricing, but we can offer higher overall value and customer service. Also, as Crystal begins to hire local staff and spend on PR/Marketing then their prices will need to go up as well. In the short term they will try to suffocate their competition with low-priced or even free work. You just need to hold your breadth a little.

[ihabkal]

I think I am partly to blame for Crystal's modeling too. A few years back my ex-employer hired them to do a few jobs. The first one was great but the latter ones sucked, bad modeling and tons of mistakes. He asked me to make a manual for them on how to model my way, I delayed for a few months, then they started sending good models all of a sudden. It turned out he sent them a bunch of models of my own to learn from.

So I don't want to brag, and I have no proof other than my fading memories, but Crystal staff learned my techniques some years ago and it helped them become what they are today. I even scanned a few pages of an architecture terminology book and sent those to them as I remember.

But honestly all I have from getting them to do the models is sadly bad memories fixing 20 or 30 residential houses models at times.

Edited June 9, 2009 by ihabkal

[neil poppleton]

Maybe their should be an Import Tax levied as with other goods impoterd and exported around the world.....to even the playing field.

[ihabkal]

they will always find a way to do the work around that levy. Living in an advanced coiuntry, you don't know what people do here to bend the rules.