hsa Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Need to know how to map a highway texture to a surface that curves. My map has painted lines down the middle and on the sides but I have no clue how to get them to tile along the curve to look like a winding highway. The model is coming into Max as a sketchup model exported to 3ds file. My problem is that I don't do my modeling in Max Design (just render) but need to know the procedure for converting the geometry into a surface that will alow my map to follow and tile along the curved surface.... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) easiest way to do it would be to re-create the road geometry in max using either the loft or sweep tools, this will automaticaly generate the right UV mapping so that you're texture follows the path. Edited June 16, 2009 by BrianKitts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 easiest way to do it would be to create the road geometry in max using either the loft or sweep tools, this will automaticaly generate the right UV mapping so that you're texture follows the path. Brian That is exactly my problem. The geometry has already been done. I am bringing it in (3ds format) and need to convert into something in Max that I can apply coordinates that will allow the map to follow the curve. I don't know a lot about Max other than MentalRay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Just select the faces that make up the road surface, apply a uvw map modifier to them and select "Face" mapping. If you are lucky, all of the faces will be oriented uniformly and the texture should tile in the same direction on all of the faces. Sometimes this does not occur and the face mapping will place the texture on the faces with several orientations. If this occurs, I have a pretty easy workaround as well. It requires a small amount of poly-modeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Something like this perhaps? I've done a lot of road projects.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Brian That is exactly my problem. The geometry has already been done. I am bringing it in (3ds format) and need to convert into something in Max that I can apply coordinates that will allow the map to follow the curve. I don't know a lot about Max other than MentalRay Sorry, I guess what I was saying without saying it, is that what you're doing isn't easy with imported geometry. You would either have to be really particular in creating the geometry in it's native application about your facing(what claudio is getting at) or the other route that comes to my mind would be UVWunwrapping, I've never been very fast at it so I've always gone the rebuild route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Brian is definately right about the imported geometry issue. The biggest challenge with this type of work is that the geometry needs to be planned out with the final textures in mind. If not, you are creating a hell of a lot of work for some texture artist...maybe not a bad thing in this economy. If you can, post up a shot of the model with "edged faces" shown. Once I see how the geometry is laid out, I can make a better suggestion on how to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clanger Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Max 2010 does have a new spline mapping option just for this sort of thing, never used it so don't know the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I did one last week to simply make wear lines on asphalt last week that was fairly effective. I took a screen capture of the asphalt, and painted a black and white image overlay in Photoshop of how I wanted my wear pattern to look. This image was about 600k when I saved it. I then UVW mapped the object, scaled to fit. Then create your asphalt material, only create a composite map in the diffuse slot. Make the bottom material the normal asphalt map that you would use. Use the tiling option to make the map appear as the correct scale when you render. Now create a second layer in the composite channel, and apply custom black and white dirt map that you created, and switch the layer transfer type like you would in Photoshop. I can't remember what I used, probably multiply. This look fairly nice, and my total texture size for that material was something like 1.5 megs at the most, including bump maps. Now, this isn't what you wanted, but I beleive you could create road striped in the same fashion if you wanted. Export a DWG of your road shaped to Illustrator. Create your lines, and then save then save as a black and white image, and apply it in the composit channel. The black and white image for road lines would be something like 50k. ...or, just go ahead and make the lines in Illustrator, and export to Max as geometry, and paint a custom dirt map in Pshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlovsky Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 It's just like clanger said it, if you already have max 2010 (if not, u cand download a demo in autodesk website) you can assign this texture just to follow a spline, in the autodesk's page of 3dsmax 2010 u can find a tutorial that explains how to do that mapping technique, it's quite easy and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Brian is definately right about the imported geometry issue. The biggest challenge with this type of work is that the geometry needs to be planned out with the final textures in mind. If not, you are creating a hell of a lot of work for some texture artist...maybe not a bad thing in this economy. If you can, post up a shot of the model with "edged faces" shown. Once I see how the geometry is laid out, I can make a better suggestion on how to proceed. Thanks a ton for willing to help! I am attaching a shot from within Max Design 2009 (Don't have 2010). This is a 3ds import that was exported from a Sketchup model. I don't know jack about Sketchup so I have no idea how he modeled it or exported it. All I know is I have what I have (lol). It brings the road surfaces in as meshes and I tried to apply UVW map modifier to it but I have no idea how to tweak it from there. I know another poster mentioned "faces" but the UVW modifier has that option grayed out. I thought I read somewhere that Sketchup was supposed to be great for keeping meshes intact with proper mapping procedures. Could the export be part of the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The geometry that is ideal for road surfaces are quads. The texture will tile seamlessly, keep it's proportions, and make the texture task faster and easier in general. The intersection of any two roads should be handled as custom made textures specifc to the unique features of the situation. The wireframe that you posted up appears to be an interchange made up of triangles. You are not going to get any texture to tile properly on this. I am completely unfamiliar with SU, so I don't know if this geometry is the result of export or if it was natively created this way within SU. From the viewpoint of a texture artist, it's really messy. That isn't your fault. Your modeler probably did the best he/she could. Ask the modeler to show you the geometry scheme he used within SU to see if the undesirable triangulation occured in translation. Look at the wireframe of the model in SU and you should have your answer regardless. I'm sorry to say it, but I don't see any real clean fast solution here. Personally, I would rebuild the entire thing, because what you are facing now is very nasty hack work. If a remodel is completely out of the question, then you could create textures that cover the span of each lane. This will require you to be quite adept with the Pen Tool in Photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 The geometry that is ideal for road surfaces are quads. The texture will tile seamlessly, keep it's proportions, and make the texture task faster and easier in general. The intersection of any two roads should be handled as custom made textures specifc to the unique features of the situation. The wireframe that you posted up appears to be an interchange made up of triangles. You are not going to get any texture to tile properly on this. I am completely unfamiliar with SU, so I don't know if this geometry is the result of export or if it was natively created this way within SU. From the viewpoint of a texture artist, it's really messy. That isn't your fault. Your modeler probably did the best he/she could. Ask the modeler to show you the geometry scheme he used within SU to see if the undesirable triangulation occured in translation. Look at the wireframe of the model in SU and you should have your answer regardless. I'm sorry to say it, but I don't see any real clean fast solution here. Personally, I would rebuild the entire thing, because what you are facing now is very nasty hack work. If a remodel is completely out of the question, then you could create textures that cover the span of each lane. This will require you to be quite adept with the Pen Tool in Photoshop. Ok here is what I can get from the guy modeling. He can get me the outside edge lines of the road surfaces in DWG format. How would you proceed to get the proper mesh and mapping coordinates in Autocad or even Max design? Would that be a ruled surface or something similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Ok here is what I can get from the guy modeling. He can get me the outside edge lines of the road surfaces in DWG format. How would you proceed to get the proper mesh and mapping coordinates in Autocad or even Max design? Would that be a ruled surface or something similar? My own preference for modeling these types of structures always starts in AutoCAD and finishes up in Max. The entire modeling job can be done in one program, but the advantages of using both of these programs (for me) far outweigh using only one. The reason for this is because I usually have to intergrate the roadway system into existing terrain. I would not start with an outside edge unless all of the roads are entirely flat. I would request an AutoCAD file with the following: 1 - 3D centerlines of all proposed roadways 2 - 3D contours of existing terrain or TIN (triangulated irregular network) 3 - 2D overlays of all proposed roadways with sections for each 4 - hi-res aerials of site Sometimes I get asked to model roads and terrain with none of this data. When that is the situation, you basically approximate the data. You build everything listed above from agreed upon values with an engineer and/or Project Manager. I did a very challenging site for a CGA member this way. Fun stuff really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 My own preference for modeling these types of structures always starts in AutoCAD and finishes up in Max. The entire modeling job can be done in one program, but the advantages of using both of these programs (for me) far outweigh using only one. The reason for this is because I usually have to intergrate the roadway system into existing terrain. I would not start with an outside edge unless all of the roads are entirely flat. I would request an AutoCAD file with the following: 1 - 3D centerlines of all proposed roadways 2 - 3D contours of existing terrain or TIN (triangulated irregular network) 3 - 2D overlays of all proposed roadways with sections for each 4 - hi-res aerials of site Sometimes I get asked to model roads and terrain with none of this data. When that is the situation, you basically approximate the data. You build everything listed above from agreed upon values with an engineer and/or Project Manager. I did a very challenging site for a CGA member this way. Fun stuff really... I might be able to get 3d centerlines but I know he can get me 3d edges. Is there an approach to do this in Autocad for each scenario? I have a feeling I will have to build this with the 3d edge lines which are splines I am guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I might be able to get 3d centerlines but I know he can get me 3d edges. Is there an approach to do this in Autocad for each scenario? I have a feeling I will have to build this with the 3d edge lines which are splines I am guessing. You will need the Easy Site plug-in to do it all in AutoCAD. You might be able to use the 3D edges and using Max's surface modeling tools (Edit Spline, Cross-Section, Surface) and build the lane quads that way. You will need to get uniform vertice counts on both sides for this to work. The same thing might be successfully done using the myriad of tools built into Editable Poly. What is the deliverable on this project - a model? rendering? animation? Can you post up any concept images? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 You will need the Easy Site plug-in to do it all in AutoCAD. You might be able to use the 3D edges and using Max's surface modeling tools (Edit Spline, Cross-Section, Surface) and build the lane quads that way. You will need to get uniform vertice counts on both sides for this to work. The same thing might be successfully done using the myriad of tools built into Editable Poly. What is the deliverable on this project - a model? rendering? animation? Can you post up any concept images? This is going to be done for an animation. My thinking was to take the edges and create a RULESURF in autocad but I am not sure how to get the quad mapping on to the surface in Autocad. I could pull the line work into Max and try the surface modeling tools. I am just more familiar with modeling in Acad. I will see what i can come up with....stay tuned (lol). And I do appreciate all your help :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sounds like you are an AutoCAD user...EasySite might be suit you better than someone who feels lost in AutoCAD. Which is hilarious to me when you consider what a complex program Max is! Sounds like a cool project. Maybe the SU work can be salvaged if you can get the textures working natively. Best luck with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Sounds like you are an AutoCAD user...EasySite might be suit you better than someone who feels lost in AutoCAD. Which is hilarious to me when you consider what a complex program Max is! Sounds like a cool project. Maybe the SU work can be salvaged if you can get the textures working natively. Best luck with it... Looks like my only option is to get a quad mesh from Sketchup from the modeler but I am not sure he knows what to do (bummer). There has to be some way of turning a triangular mesh into a quad mesh in Max design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianKitts Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 . There has to be some way of turning a triangular mesh into a quad mesh in Max design. Possibly the new "quadify mesh" feature in 3dsmax2010? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Alright here is where I stand............. The 2 attachments represent geometry done in Autocad Architecture 2009 with a sweep and in Max Design 2009 with a sweep after I imported the path and profile. You can see where the geometry done inside Max has correct mapping coordinates hence the map follows the road but the version done in ACA 2008 the map just runs straight across. I included a wireframe version that obviously shows the ACA version with no mapping coordinates which is my problem. I am going to remodel this thing for the client but I have to do it in ACA 2008 where I am more comfortable. The question is how I get the same UV mapping on my ACA geometry that I have on my geometry done inside Max. Max treats the solid sweep from ACA as a mesh where as the sweep inside Max is treated as an editable spline. is there something I can do inside ACA to get the correct mapping or do I have to modify it in Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 seriously will be faster to take the time to learn in max. wont take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 ...is there something I can do inside ACA to get the correct mapping or do I have to modify it in Max. I don't think you will be able to resolve the texture issue within AutoCAD. Planar, Box, Cylindrical, and Spherical are the only mapping schemes available. What is really needed for quads is Face mapping. I also applied a texture to a P-Line and then Swept it along a curve, but got the same results as you. I cannot find anyway within AutoCAD of manipulating the orientation of the texture. Furthermore, I need more vertices on my spline and the Divide command just places ticks along it. In my opinion, AutoCAD doesn't offer enough control over the texture mapping to be worth pursuing. It's primary purpose in my workflow is roadwork and terrain modeling. It's time to face Max... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Branch Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Here are a series of shots from a project I did about a year ago that I believe are probably similiar to what you are facing. The project was done using AutoCAD, Max and V-Ray. The first shot shows the existing site, the second shows the proposed project and the final shot is a shaded wireframe with quads showing up as Major Players! Good luck with your project... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsa Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I am very close (lol) but still face a problem. I can bring in splines of the road edges from Autocad.....when I pick one of the lines and convert it to a nurbs it will allow me to create a nurbs surface with my other line but for some reason Max wants to break my 3d spline from Autocad into several sections which isn't ideal. if I could just get Max to recognize each edge line as ONE entity and let me pick the other edge line as one entity I would have a perfect nurbs mesh that WORKS! My problem is I can't find a way to convert my 3d spile into a nurbs curve in max.........this is frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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