C4D for architectural viz

[Kevin3D]

I was wondering how well Cinema4D compares with 3DS MAX for arch viz. I currently use 3DS MAX @ work (not for arch viz). I am thinking of going out on my own & one of my potential markets is arch viz. 3DS Max is very expensive & I am impressed with C4D. Any thoughts?

[Frosty]

Everyone in this little neck of the woods uses Cinema for Arch Viz

 

I've been using it for nearly 5 years now and I swear by it. MUCH simpler to use than Max - although Vray and FR look very sweet and tempting.

[STRAT]

i've been a staunt viz/max user since my beta testing days for the old DOS rel 1 3dstudio over 10 years ago.

 

a m8 steered my towards c4d r7.3 about a year half ago and i havent looked back since. i havent used viz/max for a single proffesional render in all that time.

 

i do all my modelling in AutoCAD, i still model in max too because i'm used to it, but i render in c4d.

 

even it's scan line renderer has a radiosity like feel to it!

[dwright]

I am testing it as I speak... I am thinking on using it for rendering only. But not sure yet on the radiosity.. need to do more testing. So far i think I will get one copy.

 

David

[kid]

even it's scan line renderer has a radiosity like feel to it!

I'd agree. Even when using no radiosty and traditional lighting setup it has a much better feel than Max scanline. It has more advanced features than Max scanline too, although they start slowing things down.

 

I had a educational license last year and I liked it very much.

 

I didn't delve into it's modelling as I do most of that in Rhino.

 

Here's some tests I did in C4D 7 with no radiosty. They were pretty fast to render.

 

bedroom 1

 

bedroom 2

 

Sponza night shot

 

 

And this was a day shot testing radiosity (note, I wasn't trying to create a blown out scene, void of darkness)

 

Sponza day shot

[STRAT]

yeah. even its scanliner is silky smooth as we mentioned.

 

i get a slight whispy glowy radiosity feeling to my images.

 

here are a few WIPs of a job im working on to illustrate further the point. Dont take much notice of the actual building and model because it's early wippage stage, but look at the quallity of the rendering. very similar feel to Kid's room images i think you'll agree.

 

They have 1 spot light for the sun, about 5 in-fill omnis, and NO radiosity and GI switched on what so ever - all 100% scanline rendered.

 

And fast. on my pc these shots took between 2-3 mins each @ 1024 x 768 pixels.

 

 

 

 

 

[ May 09, 2003, 05:18 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

[Ernest Burden III]

yeah. even its scanliner is silky smooth as we mentioned.i get a slight whispy glowy radiosity feeling to my images.

I may have to buy it!

 

My usual concern: What about those panned two-point perspectives--you know, without the para**** (banned word)? How are doing with that in C4D?

 

Maybe I should get both C4D and Max. Of course I would but them and just keep rendering in Lightscape because I'm used to it. Speaking of LS, talk about fast 'scanline' raytracing. I hope I don't have to accept much longer renders for animation frames if I swithch to Max or C4D.

[Kevin3D]

Kid & Strat,

 

Those are beautiful images!!!!

[Ernest Burden III]

the Advanced Render Module provides advanced features to achieve the ultimate realism. Renders will look even more realistic with radiosity rendering, surface and volume caustics, highlights, glow and enhanced depth-of-field. US$495

The base price is US$595-- Do I read their website correctly that the base program does NOT include radiosity and caustics? So to get those way-cool renders out of C4D it is really an $1100 program?

[STRAT]

you are correct. even thats a reletivly cheap price.

 

about parall**? same problems as with other 3d apps.

[Kevin3D]

Originally posted by Ernest Burden:

The base price is US$595-- Do I read their website correctly that the base program does NOT include radiosity and caustics? So to get those way-cool renders out of C4D it is really an $1100 program?

That is what I understand. Which means C4D is now near the price of Lightwave (LW can be had for $995 if you wait for one of their frequent deals).

 

However, my impression is that C4D is very easy to use, which is important for someone like me who does 3D animation, video compositing, web programming, flash & director. I just don't have the time/brain cells to have to dig so deeply into a 3D app to do simple things (hence my move from max).

 

C4D also works VERY WELL with photoshop & after effects, 2 of my key apps.

[xgarcia]

Does the camera correction modifier in viz4 solve this para**** you speak of? Too bad Lightscape does not have this feature.

[Ernest Burden III]

Does the camera correction modifier in viz4 solve this para**** you speak of? Too bad Lightscape does not have this feature.

What are you talking about? Lightscape doesn't NEED this feature*. It does panned two-point perspective as is. That was a primary reason I bought it as soon as it was ported to NT.

 

*Although that does not apply to animation renders.

[jackb602]

I just started using C4D less than 2 months ago, and I've found it remarkably easy to pick up. The interface is very clearly organized, and I've been able to customize it to my heart's content. The rendering quality is phenomenal (I have the Advanced Render plugin), and I can't think of an important rendering feature that it doesn't include.

 

I really can't comment on modeling since I still do that exclusively in FormZ, but my impression is that FormZ is a much more powerful modeler for architecture in particular.

 

If you're thinking about buying, chek out the Maxon site. They offer a competitive upgrade price. I saved something like $500 on the Studio Bundle because I already had a FormZ license. The sales person I spoke to took another $100 off the price as well. In any case, I think you'll find it's well worth the price.

 

regards,

Jack

[STRAT]

this is true.

 

when i switched over to C4D from Viz, i had a substantial discount for doing so aswell. all i had to produce was proof of my Viz lisence.

 

it may be looked on as 'poaching' custom maybe, but i say good marketing. top marks to maxon.

 

the up-grades are extreamly reasonably priced too.

[Ernest Burden III]

when i switched over to C4D from Viz, i had a substantial discount for doing so aswell. all i had to produce was proof of my Viz lisence.

I called them just now, and it seems that the 'competitive upgrade' is permanant, as well as the $100 additional discount for calling and sounding sceptical. So I'm still at US$1100, which isn't bad.

 

My biggest complaint so far is that the demo can't save (I try to never use a demo that can't save--if you aren't doing some real work with it you are just playing around, and what good is that in evaluating software?) and there is no return of the product once bought.

 

But their users do seem happy enough. I remain torn...

[xgarcia]

Originally posted by Ernest Burden:

quote:

---

Does the camera correction modifier in viz4 solve this para**** you speak of? Too bad Lightscape does not have this feature.

What are you talking about? Lightscape doesn't NEED this feature*. It does panned two-point perspective as is. That was a primary reason I bought it as soon as it was ported to NT.

 

*Although that does not apply to animation renders. How do I use this feature in lightscape? Is it in the help file? Or is it simple as just setting your camera and point at same heights and scrolling the screen as needed? Thanks.

 

Xavier

[STRAT]

Originally posted by Ernest Burden:

So I'm still at US$1100, which isn't bad.

 

My biggest complaint so far is that the demo can't save (I try to never use a demo that can't save--if you aren't doing some real work with it you are just playing around, and what good is that in evaluating software?) and there is no return of the product once bought.

 

But their users do seem happy enough. I remain torn...

The non-save function is a pain in the butt, but it's better than a time bombed demo i suppose. ur right, not really ideal to evaluate, but hey, the demo nabbed me

 

$1100 is still a damn good price imho. come on now Ernest, dont be a big girl's blouse and go out and buy a copy now!

[Frosty]

Haha, nice strat. I actually started using CInema with an old copy called Cinema 4D Go. It came free with a Mac Addict CD and I was able to buy the license for $50. A quick call to Maxon (where I spoke to the president of the company - not a secretary) and I was rolling with a cheap, easy way to do 3D.

 

That initial conversation with Paul Babb sparked an interest from my architecture school. They soon followed and bought a site licence to C4D XL 7. Many students, including myself also took advantage of thier educational deal to get XL 7 as well. I have since also bought XL 8.

 

Its pretty cool to see the interest in Cinema grow so intensely in the past few years. The truth is, its a fantastically easy program to learn - and as strat and kid have show, its renderer is top notch.

[Ernest Burden III]

Lightscape doesn't NEED this feature*. It does panned two-point perspective as is.

 

Or is it simple as just setting your camera and point at same heights and scrolling the screen as needed? Thanks.Xavier

Yes, that simple. Camera/target at same Z height, use the hand tool to pan the view about as needed. If you save the view the panning is saved with it.

 

Modifier, I laugh at your modifier, I am unfairly entertained by the sillyness of an architectural rendering app that has no clue about two-point perspective. OK, I'm done now.

[xgarcia]

Thanks Ernest.

[Ernest Burden III]

come on now Ernest, dont be a big girl's blouse and go out and buy a copy now!

OK that's one of those British slang three-degrees-of-seperation lingo thingies, like "three hail mary's and how's your father". Whatever that means. Rhymes with, also means...

 

Or as we say over here "hey, what'd you call me?"

[dwright]

Strat, those images are great!. Does it flicker at all on animation? shadow map flicker? what about radiosity flickering?

 

David

[STRAT]

Originally posted by dwright:

Strat, those images are great!. Does it flicker at all on animation? shadow map flicker? what about radiosity flickering?

 

David

the animations dont flicker in the slightest when scan lining. but switch on radiosity setting? yup, there can be a problem.

 

There are certain ways and settings to minimalise the flickering, but, after exhaustive testing, the only sure fire way to get a virtually flicker free animation is to put GI settings very high.

 

This is usually too high the the average pc today to render with any speed unfortunately. I've recently had my new Xeon pc delivered, so because c4d takes advantage of multi/hyper threading i'm getting managable render times with high settings.

 

here is a small anim i recently did to test - this rendered over night, at a resolution of 480x360 using fairly high gi settings to minimalise the flicker:

 

http://www.nikclark.com/strat/uploads/360.mov

 

but, as stated in the thread, c4d has the silkiest smoothest renderer, imho, you'll ever use. very radiosity/gi like even for scan-line and raytrace rendering. and super fast. (much faster than max). so to save on time i've render animations out, over night, at a res of 800x600, using the scanliner.

 

the images i posted look like gi renderes right? wrong, they are scan lined with a couple of in-fill omnis. that quality is more than fantastic for my liking. the reason is one of C4D's hidden gems - it's lights and shadow maps. shadows are super smooth and subtle and so controlable. even tho c4d has area lights, it's easy to use omnis and raytraced lights instead of area lights, giving the same effect. fakiosity has got to be the easiest thing to do effectively in c4d.

 

That mall is animated, i'll try down-size it and post it up on monday.

[Ernest Burden III]

Don't forget it's important to be Ernest.

No, it's important to be earnest. There is nothing important about being Ernest. I'm the third, and my sons are Kyle and Luke. Enough with that family joke.