Groups, Layers, Selection Sets?

[RevitGary]

I Was hoping we could get a discussion going on these options.

 

Originally I was using mostly groups for combining objects. I found selection sets confusing.

 

Now layers seem to be the easiest. Except I noticed if i try putting grouped objects on layers it destroys my rendering times. A 1 minute render will turn into a 10 minute render.

 

Anyone have any ideas why layering groups would kill my render times?

 

If anyone has comments on which method you prefer and why it would be nice to hear from you.

 

Thanks

[Matt McDonald]

We are big on selections sets. Those coupled with good naming conventions makes it very easy to go through and select options.

 

We recently tried layers and though it seemed ok from a work flow standpoint the layers required a lot of extra geometry. People who only hid the layers they didn't need experienced significant slow downs, I assume, because of the extra geometry in the scene (even if it was hidden).

 

I hate groups. Hate 'em. You're always ungrouping this to find that is grouped and then there is another group and then you have to get them all closed up right or objects get that wierd transparency bug. My feelings is that if you name your parts well you don't need groups (this is helped greatly by a renamer script).

[mattclinch]

never group, always layer.

 

never felt the need for selection sets other than a few lights here and there. am i right in saying there is no way to add more objects to an existing selection set?

[Nic H]

layers are easiest (but still could be alot better), selection sets are a bit of a pain as objects dont automatically go into the set and groups are really slow and stupid, are more useful for moving / rotating / scaling sets of objects momentarily.

[Dave Buchhofer]

based on a lot of random assed testing many years ago, group = storing transformations/controllers twice, bloats filesize and rendertimes, (Because of adding to the hierarchy? conceptually doesn't make much sense though as that tends to HELP speed in real-time engines..)

 

layers = for the instant hide/show of a ton of objects at once.

 

if layers dialog had hierarchy they would be badass though!

[Trick]

...if layers dialog had hierarchy they would be badass though!

 

I wonder why this plugin (http://www.fangornlm.com/) never got that popular then.

[Scott Erstad]

. am i right in saying there is no way to add more objects to an existing selection set?

 

You can add to a selection set by selecting the objects to add, open Select. Set dialog & clicking the * + * button if memory serves - but, yes you can very easily.

 

I use a variety. Layers are nice for separating site plan, entourage, architecture, etc. Groups are good for components like a car, window unit, etc. Selection sets are good for setting up materials, like all the glass, all the mulls, all the precast.

 

The key is in consistent naming of your geometry and the initial model construction I think, so after you've built the model, you can then begin to parse the scene to assign & tweak mats. It is the way I work anyway.

 

Scott

[RevitGary]

"The key is in consistent naming of your geometry"

 

I have always worked on my own. I have never seen another persons Max file. What naming conventions do you use? I am sure this is an area I am very weak at.

[KIT]

"The key is in consistent naming of your geometry"

 

I have always worked on my own. I have never seen another persons Max file. What naming conventions do you use? I am sure this is an area I am very weak at.

 

Well, I think that if you are working alone the best thing would be to do it in a way that works for you (sort of a stupid answer I know). Bottom line is that groups, layer, containers, selection sets and even a rational naming system are good as long as they allow you to work better/faster. So if you open the Select by Name panel several times and spend a long time browsing trough the listed items, then you probably need a new naming scheme...

 

I find that architects love to have as many layers as possible for some reason, (specially in AutoCad), which is nice if you created the project and now exactly what goes where, however when I get the file for modelling/rendering, usually I have no way of knowing what the difference is between "001 - Columns A" and " 002 - Columns B" (and that's assuming the layers actually contain columns, which is not always the case).

 

In conclusion: keep it simple... if someone who has never seen the file, can immediately understand how the scene is organized, then you are doing something right....

 

NOTE: I seem to be rambling a bit... guess I have not fully woken up yet...

[mattclinch]

I find that architects love to have as many layers as possible for some reason, (specially in AutoCad), which is nice if you created the project and now exactly what goes where, however when I get the file for modelling/rendering, usually I have no way of knowing what the difference is between "001 - Columns A" and " 002 - Columns B" (and that's assuming the layers actually contain columns, which is not always the case).

 

I'd sooner have 1000 layers to bring in than the entire model on Layer:0. Makes cleanup and importing much better if you have a well organised CAD file.

[KIT]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that either. Like many things the trick is finding the "sweet spot" not one layer for everything, and not one layer per object.

[luckymutt]

"The key is in consistent naming of your geometry"

 

I have always worked on my own. I have never seen another persons Max file. What naming conventions do you use? I am sure this is an area I am very weak at.

Specifics can vary depending on the project, but I find the best approach to start with is:

noun_adjective_adjective_xxx

for example:

window_lvl16_north_012

 

This way when you open the Select By Name dialog you can start typing "window" and keep drilling down to whatever specific one(s) you need.

 

Don't forget that you can use wild cards as well.

For example, typing:

*_lvl16_*

will get you everything on level 16 of your building

or typing:

window_*_north

will give you all windows on the north of your building