Need New System ASAP - Electrical Storm

[Jeff Mottle]

Hi all,

 

Well the night before I left for SIGGRAPH we had a really bad wind and lightning storm. In the process it fried my workstation. This seems to happen about once ever 4-5 years despite having my entire house main breaker surge protected and a Battery backup attached to my workstation. I went out today to get a new power supply and the green light came on on the motherboard and the chasis fan very slowly turned, but nothing else worked. Not sure what else went with it, but it looks like I'll be filing an insurance claim come Monday.

 

My system was an

 

ASUS P5N32-SLI

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66 GHz 4MB

4GB RAM

eVGA GeForce 7900 GTX 512MB (Two of them)

Zalman CPU Cooler

Zalman VGA Cooler

 

I'm considering getting an i7 system now. While I don't do production any more, I will be starting to review new video cards and software soon for the site, so need something equivalent in spec to a new production machine. (NVIDIA and ATI are sending me several of their top cards to review after meetings I had at SIGGRAPH and I need to test plugins etc for 3ds max like Maxwell, V-Ray etc.)

 

Was wondering what you guys would reccomend. It's been quite a while since I have looked into hardware. While I am on XP now, I might consider going to Vista and then upgrade to Windows 7 in the fall. Has anyone run into any software that does not work on 64 bit machines?

 

I got this machine second hard from my brother in law a few years ago as he buys new machines several times a year. As a result the front door on the case was broken off, so I'll likely be looking for a new case too. Reccomendations?

 

One of the other criteria for this new machine is VERY quiet. Any suggestions here would be great too.

 

This new machine has to be purchased tomorrow or Monday as I have to get it up and running before I leave out East for 3 weeks.

 

Thanks!

Jeff

[SandmanNinja]

Hi Jeff - Sorry for your loss. I hate it when lightning takes out a system.

 

I think an i7 is a very cost effective system to get. It has grunt yet doesn't cost a fortune for a true twin Xeon CPU motherboard (which gives you true 8-core).

 

I'd stick with just 6 gigs of ram, no need to go with 12 gigs.

 

Windows 7 is coming out in 2 weeks (for the masses - special friends of Microsoft can get it now) - BUT - if you are testing new plug-ins and what-not, the NEW operating system might throw a spanner in the works. I'd consider dual booting one of the following combinations:

xp64-vista

xp64-windows 7

vista-windows 7

This would give you options such as:

"The plug-in works fine under XP64, however under Win7 it is buggy."

 

64-bit Operating Systems have been around for a long time now, and other than QuickTime (which can be replaced with the 3rd party FREE plug-in called DeVal), there isn't any software that I'm aware of that won't work under xp64 or vista. Obviously any Apple software (QuickTime, iPod related software, etc) may not, but I don't include those in my thinking.

 

i7 is not a very hot CPU either, so you can eliminate extra BIG fans that might be noisy. They also have power supplies that are advertised as being Quiet(er).

 

Hope this helps.

[AJLynn]

Go with an i7 920 - it's fast enough for damn near anything and quite inexpensive. Get 3x2GB RAM and add another 3x2GB later if you feel like it. Joel has a good point about OSes, just make sure you use an extra hard drive (partitioned) for your "extra" OSes. All the major software runs on 64-bit. The only exception I've found is that iTunes 64 is for Vista 64 only, and needs hacking to run on XP 64. As for non-major software, the exceptions I've found are Macdrive (no XP64) and drivers for obsolete scanners (try installing Hamrick Vuescan).

 

I use Lian-Li cases but a friend (Shmoron13 on the forum) who uses his PC for music likes the Antec Sonata series for quietness. For quietness, my other comment would be to go with a CPU cooler that uses a 120mm fan. Larger fans spin slower and are quieter. I switched from an Arctic Freezer 7 to a Thermalright 120 and the difference was amazing. Same applies to power supply - look for one with a large fan. You'd have a hard time going wrong with an Asus motherboard. Try a P6T. See if you can salvage a 7900GTX, you probably just fried the MB but not the other parts.

 

And if you have too many things to review, send some to me, I'll help you out.

[WAcky]

I second the Antec cases. I use antec when I can. They weigh a tonne but they're known for how quiet they are.

 

If you can get your hands on a quiet version of the GFX card you want to purchase and a bigger/quieter CPU fan you can make it quiet enough to sleep next to depending on what the PC is doing.

[Jeff Mottle]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I won't know if the video cards survived until I get the new board, but the chassis fan is seized, so I have a feeling a lot more than just the board is gone. Those cards also ran so hot that I noticed that both boards are actually sagging about 1/4"!!

 

My local retailer has the following ASUS boards in stock:

 

Asus P6T Deluxe V2

Asus P6T SE

Asus P6T X58

Asus Rampage II GENE

 

Any suggestions as to which one would be best?

 

Also what sort of PS should I get? The one I got today was the Corsair HX 750W, but I can return it tomorrow if required. I need to be sure that the PS will be able to handle the power requirements of the top video cards put out by NVIDIA and ATI, but also GeForce etc. I see NVIDIA has a power requirement of around 300 watts just for some cards and at least 680 for the system. I wonder if I need a 1000W PS?

 

Cheers,

Jeff

[AJLynn]

Wait a minute, the video cards were hot enough to warp their own PCBs??? That's amazing.

 

I'd say go with either the regular P6T X58 or the Deluxe V2. The SE is the lower cost version and I don't think it supports SLI. The Deluxe has a few higher quality components including a very robust power design (a 16 phase power supply to the CPU and a separate power supply to the memory controller) but that's most useful when doing extreme overclocking, so maybe the P6T is enough. Both support SLI and Crossfire which may be important for reviewing video cards. Maybe you can finally answer the age old "is SLI important for 3DSMax?" question.

 

I'm looking at the specs for the Corsair power supply. It's listed as having a 60 amp 12V rail, which is mighty impressive. I'd thought that rails over 20 amps violated the ATX spec but maybe it's compliant in newer versions of the spec, and anyway Asus has known such power supplies existed for years so it's not going to break anything. If you want to be extra crazy about it you could always exchange the power supply for an 850W or 1000W model, which you'd probably want if you plan to test 3-video-card configurations.

[Jeff Mottle]

Wait a minute, the video cards were hot enough to warp their own PCBs??? That's amazing.

 

Yeah scary isn't it. And that's with large copper Zalman powered coolers attached to each.

 

I'd say go with either the regular P6T X58 or the Deluxe V2.

 

Do you know what the Rampage version brings to the table over these? Just better overclocking support?

 

I'm looking at the specs for the Corsair power supply. It's listed as having a 60 amp 12V rail, which is mighty impressive.

 

Looks like they also carry a 1000W version too, although it's pricey.

[AJLynn]

Do you know what the Rampage version brings to the table over these? Just better overclocking support?

 

A bunch of new overclock features and an upgraded sound card. But it's also a smaller board with fewer card slots and doesn't have the upgraded CPU power supply. The smaller size wouldn't be helpful in a midtower case - this is for the guys who think a party involves bringing your own desktop PC, so the PC has to be more portable. (They make straps to carry it on your back and you can trick it out with pimp lights.)

[WAcky]

I'd say if you go with an Antec box, if it is rated high enough for your needs then stick with the supplied one as I believe they're "silent" PSU's and are pretty good.

[shaneis]

Don't forget the cases with 10" fans - very low RPM and quiet. Like this...

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103011

 

If you're going to be testing the high-end cards, you'll need to get more power. Remember that the GPU race is moving very fast, so "ample" power now will be under-powered in 6 months time. At present, if you're running a late model SLI/ CrossFireX setup, odds are you'll need 1000W minimum. I'd be looking at the 1200W range. Hey, in 12 months time, ATI and nVidia wil probably be sending you quad GPU cards to review.

Edited August 9, 2009 by shaneis
added link

[Husam]

Hi all,

 

I wasn't sure whether to start a new post for this or continue here since we are already on the topic of Jeff's new dream machine. (smile).

 

I'm also looking to buy a new system thats optimized for 3D visualization. A high end machine used primarly for 3Ds Max 2010 and Photoshop CS4. I've looked at the new Z600 machines by HP and was wondering how they compare to BOXX machines with the same specs. BOXX takes pride in building machines geared for the 3D Visualization industry, however, I'm inclining towards the Z600 because they use Intel as oppsed to AMD. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Husam

[AJLynn]

Boxx also makes Intel boxes, and they do provide a high level of customer service. There will be little difference in the machines themselves if the specs are the same. Price out both options then decide - if they come out the same or Boxx is cheaper I'd lean toward Boxx, but if HP is cheaper that might be the way to go.

[Jeff Mottle]

So tentatively this is the machine I am looking at:

 

Case: Cooler Master Cosmos 1000

Motherboard: Asus P6T7 WS SuperComputer

RAM: OCZ 6GB PC3-10666 x 2

CPU: i7 920 2.66 GHz w/ 8MB Cache

CPU Cooler: Thermalright COGAGE TRUE Spirit

Video: eVGA GeForce GTX 295 CO-OP Edition

Power Supply: Corsair HX 1000W w/ dual +12V Rail

OS Drives: Seagate 1TB Barracuda 7200.12 SATA II w/ 16MB Cache (RAID 1 - OS Drives)

Scratch Drive: Seagate 500GB Baracuda 7200.12 SATA II w/ 16MB Cache

OS: Windows Vista Business 64 bit

 

Cost $2,650 CDN (Approx $2450 US)

 

The MB has some specific CUDA and Parallel GPU processing features that I thought might be useable for future GPU reviews. I tend to keep my computers as long as I can and drive them into the ground, or wait until lightning strikes them so this should be a good board to last a few years.

 

This case seems to have received a number of good reviews for overall noise and my vendor has it in stock.

 

Thoughts?

 

[shaneis]

OS Drives: Seagate 1TB Barracuda 7200.12 SATA II w/ 16MB Cache (RAID 1 - OS Drives)

Scratch Drive: Seagate 500GB Baracuda 7200.12 SATA II w/ 16MB Cache

 

500GB 16MB cache for Scratch!?!?! It seems a little large and slow for an effective scratch disc? What about any of the 10,000rpm VelociRaptor's or at least a WD Caviar Black 32MB instead? You'll get much better I/O rates from them.

 

Just out of interest, what would you be doing that required an extra 500GB in scratch space when you'll have 12GB of RAM on-board?

[Ernest Burden III]

Jeff

 

What brand was the UPS? I have lots of APCs, never had a lightning death. I'm sure that's just luck of not being hit directly, though we've had storms every year. I ask because APC (and probably the other major brands as well) have a guarentee covering the systems plugged into them. You may have a claim.

 

On the makes, I've always been happy with Boxx. I only have one HP and it's a consumer model. It's been good, other than starting life with tons of pre-loaded crap. I would think HPs pro line is solid.

[F J]

500GB 16MB cache for Scratch!?!?! It seems a little large and slow for an effective scratch disc? What about any of the 10,000rpm VelociRaptor's or at least a WD Caviar Black 32MB instead? You'll get much better I/O rates from them.

 

Just out of interest, what would you be doing that required an extra 500GB in scratch space when you'll have 12GB of RAM on-board?

 

VelociRaptor? u'r kidding me, rite? lol

how about a INTEL SSD X25-M 80GB MLC (G2) instead?

the VelociRaptor is the fastest of the mechanical drives, yet look how they compare in performance to a SSD:

 

- random read performance

 

- random write performance

 

its what i use for the OS and all Applications (still use a mechanical drive for Storage tho)..

i now open up all my Programs in under 1 or 2secs max..

it will literally make u look like this ---> lol

it is the single best component upgrade one could get nowadays..

 

 

as for the lightning storm, i think i've fried a Power Supply once..

but ever since i got a Mustek 2000VA UPS i've been issue free..

[Jeff Mottle]

500GB 16MB cache for Scratch!?!?! It seems a little large and slow for an effective scratch disc? What about any of the 10,000rpm VelociRaptor's or at least a WD Caviar Black 32MB instead? You'll get much better I/O rates from them.

 

Just out of interest, what would you be doing that required an extra 500GB in scratch space when you'll have 12GB of RAM on-board?

 

The drives are what the local shop recommended and I don't usually have time to keep up with everything, so I'm certainly open to suggestions. I'll likely downgrade the RAM to 6GB as I thought I had 8 in my current system, but then realized it was only 4. Although it was only $150 to get the extra 6GB of RAM. I usually have a lot of apps open at once and a lot of services running which really suck up RAM.

 

On the SSD drives, originally I was considering a 120GB SSD (OcX), but I don't think it would be big enough to hold all of my apps. I wish I could remember how much space I had taken up, but I don't have a system to hook up my drives. My laptop however is using up around 100GB, so I am fairly confident I'm over that on my workstation and the guy at the store said not to RAID 0 an SSD drive. That Intel Drive is also VERY expensive. I think I'll wait for the prices to come down on those.

[Jeff Mottle]

Jeff

 

What brand was the UPS? I have lots of APCs, never had a lightning death. I'm sure that's just luck of not being hit directly, though we've had storms every year. I ask because APC (and probably the other major brands as well) have a guarentee covering the systems plugged into them. You may have a claim.

 

 

I have a Belkin 750 mA, although I've had APCs do the exact same thing in the past. This is the 3rd machine in the last 10 years I've lost to power surges from a lightning store. This one also has a waranty, but you have to mail them all of your equipment, which is a lot of weight and money. I may do it, but I'll probably claim on my business insurance first. Waiting for a call from my agent this morning. For my new system I'm purchasing insurance from the store. $500 for 4 years no questions asked parts replacement on the entire system above. If it does not work (and you have not abused it) then they will replace it with an equivalent new piece of hardware. Might as well given my insurance deductable is $500 anyway.

[SandmanNinja]

Florida is famous for their lightning storms (and lightning deaths to golfers). No Surge Protecter will protect against a Direct Strike or a very close one. Best you can hope to do is minimise the damage.

 

Back in Ye Olde Days, lightning strikes would ride up the phone lines into your modem and zap your motherboard that way. I'm wondering if it could overload your adsl router and do similar damage?

 

Sounds like a great system, mate.

 

 

Okay, err.. Canada is famous for their lightning strikes, too.

[Archiform 3D]

Hi Jeff,

 

I cant quite figure if you are looking to buy or build. If you need whisper quiet then I suggest building your own. That way you can get a super quite EVERYTHING. I would suggest a big super quiet case than can take the larger 120mm fans, which are quieter as the spin slower.

 

If you haven't built one before then maybe it's time you took a shot at it. Its not hard.

 

Steve

[Jeff Mottle]

Hi Jeff,

 

I cant quite figure if you are looking to buy or build. If you need whisper quiet then I suggest building your own. That way you can get a super quite EVERYTHING. I would suggest a big super quiet case than can take the larger 120mm fans, which are quieter as the spin slower.

 

If you haven't built one before then maybe it's time you took a shot at it. Its not hard.

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

I'll be building the system myself. I've been doing that for the last 10 years. Have never really had any issues, but I don't keep up with all of the new hardware changes until I need new hardware.

[shaneis]

I'll likely downgrade the RAM to 6GB as I thought I had 8 in my current system, but then realized it was only 4. Although it was only $150 to get the extra 6GB of RAM. I usually have a lot of apps open at once and a lot of services running which really suck up RAM.

 

If that's the case, then considering the price it's probably easier to just grab the extra RAM. Going from 4GB to 12GB will see you through for a while. Should you find that you need extra memory, you could add that at a later date. Multi-tasking and background services don't really warrant scratch drives - tends to suit video, audio and any other large data sets more than system responsiveness. Another bonus with RAM is less power consumption than HDD's (leaving more power for the GPU's you'll be testing) and with 64-bit, in effect, it's unlimited. Adding to that if you find you're needing more RAM, it's just a matter of buying some more DIMMs and plugging them in as opposed to formatting and installing new a HDD as scratch. The mobo you chose can take up to 24GB - that should be plenty for your purposes and faster than any HDD...even a marvelous Intel SSD!

[Jeff Mottle]

If that's the case, then considering the price it's probably easier to just grab the extra RAM. Going from 4GB to 12GB will see you through for a while. Should you find that you need extra memory, you could add that at a later date. Multi-tasking and background services don't really warrant scratch drives - tends to suit video, audio and any other large data sets more than system responsiveness. Another bonus with RAM is less power consumption than HDD's (leaving more power for the GPU's you'll be testing) and with 64-bit, in effect, it's unlimited. Adding to that if you find you're needing more RAM, it's just a matter of buying some more DIMMs and plugging them in as opposed to formatting and installing new a HDD as scratch. The mobo you chose can take up to 24GB - that should be plenty for your purposes and faster than any HDD...even a marvelous Intel SSD!

 

The scratch drive is indeed for video and large photoshop files all open at once. The RAM is for multitasking and when testing 3d apps etc.

 

I'm still on the fence about the SSD drives. Has anyone tried to RAID-0 a couple of these drives and installed and the OS and all of their apps on it?

[F J]

The scratch drive is indeed for video and large photoshop files all open at once. The RAM is for multitasking and when testing 3d apps etc.

 

I'm still on the fence about the SSD drives. Has anyone tried to RAID-0 a couple of these drives and installed and the OS and all of their apps on it?

 

i have.. except that its not RAID 0, since i've been advised by the OCZ "cientists" that its not really the smartest thing to do, since a single SSD already got

 

i dunno if u have seen this ?

[Jeff Mottle]

i have.. except that its not RAID 0, since i've been advised by the OCZ "cientists" that its not really the smartest thing to do, since a single SSD already got

 

i dunno if u have seen this ?

 

 

Wow, I hadn't seen this vid. My main concern, other than price is that even the 120GB will not be large enough for all of my apps. I really wish I could look to see how much space my install took up, but my OS drive is RAID-1 and I don't have a RAID card to read the data off now as the machine is fried. Could you guys post how much much space your OS and app install size is for reference.

 

The large apps I had installed on my machine were:

 

CS4 Design Suite

Lightroom

3ds Max

MS Office

Sony Vegas

 

I have a whole host of other apps and utilities too, but most are relatively small. The only point of reference I have is my laptop (Macbook Pro) with Parallels. With the two OS's and apps on both, that is around 100GB.

 

I suppose the other option is to put in more than one logical SSD drive and install apps on different drives, rather than RAID-0.