F J Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 damn, Jeff! what's happened there? u should keep ur old system bootable in order to be able to troubleshoot individual parts.. does ur system at least boot up until Windows is supposed to start loading? if so try to check BIOS if ur drive settings changed from RAID to IDE for some reason.. that happens to me from time to time.. go figure.. i also have an app called RAID Reconstructor: "Recover data from a broken RAID Level 5 or RAID Level 0 Array. Even if you do not know the RAID parameters, such as drive order and block size, RAID Reconstructor will analyze your drives and determine the correct values. You will then be able to create a copy of the reconstructed RAID in an image file or on a physical drive." fortunately i've never had to use it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 damn, Jeff! what's happened there? u should keep ur old system bootable in order to be able to troubleshoot individual parts.. does ur system at least boot up until Windows is supposed to start loading? if so try to check BIOS if ur drive settings changed from RAID to IDE for some reason.. that happens to me from time to time.. go figure.. i also have an app called RAID Reconstructor: "Recover data from a broken RAID Level 5 or RAID Level 0 Array. Even if you do not know the RAID parameters, such as drive order and block size, RAID Reconstructor will analyze your drives and determine the correct values. You will then be able to create a copy of the reconstructed RAID in an image file or on a physical drive." fortunately i've never had to use it.. I brought it to the computer shop yesterday and they are pretty sure it's the RAID drivers. Apparently the latest Intel RAID controller drivers (which I think I used) cause random breaks in RAID setups. They won't start looking at it until later today or tomorrow, but I am hoping they can attach the drives to another machine and install different drivers, although they may not be able to do that as the drivers are MB specific and my board is a special order so they won't have one in stock. As the drivers have to be installed from the OS (which won't boot), I'm likely going to have to re-install everything again. Which is a PITFA as Windows 7 is coming out in a few weeks so I'll have to rebuild just in time to rebuild again for W7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F J Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 i know that using RAID 0 with WinXP requires the RAID drivers to be supplied during the XP install.. eventho i've never used Vista, i hear that from Vista version n on u dont have to do this since Vista (or Win7) takes care of this on its own.. since XP/Vista/7 store motherboard info onto the drive's MBR (Master Boot Record) u wont be able to boot ur drives on a different system.. but remember that u can still salvage any important data (should that be the case) either with SandmanNinja's recommendation or with the app i mentioned.. PS: did the system still boot up until Windows was supposed to start loading tho? if so, BIOS might have changed the drive option from RAID to IDE.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) but remember that u can still salvage any important data (should that be the case) either with SandmanNinja's recommendation or with the app i mentioned.. I was able to access the drive from the command prompt from the Vista repair app on the install disk. However because the array was toast I could only copy data from the one drive that was being recognized. I was able to get everything off the desktop that I had their temporarily. However this does not help the fact it takes about 8 hours to install all my apps again. What really pisses me off is that I have Acronis true image, but I had just not got around to making an image as the system was only a month old. Needless to say once I rebuild, Acronis will be the first thing I install. I could have been back up again in a matter of a few hours had I done what I should have. PS: did the system still boot up until Windows was supposed to start loading tho? if so, BIOS might have changed the drive option from RAID to IDE.. The BIOS does change when the RAID breaks, but I switched it back many times. When the array was playing nice, windows would make it past the loading screen and then promptly bluescreen with some error about not being able to page to a nonpageable area. I am debating if I should switch to RAID 10 over RAID 0. Much less likely to lose the OS if the driver fails again, but given these are SSDs would be a $1300 cost to do this + another $1000+ for a decent 3WARE Raid controller to handle the extra channels. Does anyone know if you can use both the on board RAID controller and a 3rd party controller at the same time. I like to connect backup drives to my system via the external eSATA ports, but with RAID 10 there would not be enough ports onboard to do this. The other option is to just mirror the drive every week and stick with RAID 0. Edited October 16, 2009 by Jeff Mottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I know this probably isnt what you want to hear right now, but Ive had 8 machines from these guys, all total bargains, and ive never had any problems. Zero, not even a little one. http://www.computerlx.com/ I went through their ebay store (allpczone) but I guess they are the same outfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 I know this probably isnt what you want to hear right now, but Ive had 8 machines from these guys, all total bargains, and ive never had any problems. Zero, not even a little one. http://www.computerlx.com/ I went through their ebay store (allpczone) but I guess they are the same outfit. My local reseller is really good too, as I purchased a warranty with them. So they will replace and fix anything within 4 years even due to a power surge. Also, I don't like to buy computer hardware outside of the country as it's a PITA if anything goes wrong to ship internationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Not sure about going to RAID10 - just make sure you do a full system backup straight away and she'll be right. I like installing the backup software immediately after I have all of OS and drivers and patches installed for the OS, with NO apps loaded. I label it "CLEAN OS". I then install apps and do another full backup and call it "CLEAN OS AND APPS". Sometimes it's nice to be able to 'roll back' to a pristine OS install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F J Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Jeff, were u able to evaluate the actual drive size required for u to install all ur stuff? cuz if its under 160GB it would be sweet if they'd still let u trade the Torqx's for an Intel X25-M G2, killin' 2 rabbits with 1 stone, gettin' much better quality/performance/reliability, plus avoiding any potencial RAID issues all together (as RAID 0 isnt really that important with SSD's performance-wise).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 or sure one of the drives is gone or corrupt, I lost my MFT, the bootfile and probably some data. I've spent most of the day messing around in the command prompt in the windows repair for Vista trying to manually rebuild stuff to no avail. It's all under warranty, but the shop where I purchased it can't look at it for a week and if it's the MB it will be another week to special order it in. I swear nothing goes right these days... Hey Jeff, Mac has a very cool thing called Time Machine. It backs up every few minutes if it has to and you can recover from any point or the whole thing. It is VERY safe. I know you are a Windows guy but maybe you should see if there is something similar. All my workstations have their normal drives PLUS one big one that is just for Time Machine, so and can be resurrected quickly and with only a few minutes or an hour of work being lost. Big drives a cheap now... Now, more advice.... I always make sure that any Windows box I build has off the shelf hardware. OK, that sometimes means I forgo the very latest stuff but I can have a broken PC running again in an hour - and I have about 50 of them so I need things to be fast and easy! You may want to consider the notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Jeff, were u able to evaluate the actual drive size required for u to install all ur stuff? cuz if its under 160GB it would be sweet if they'd still let u trade the Torqx's for an Intel X25-M G2, killin' 2 rabbits with 1 stone, gettin' much better quality/performance/reliability, plus avoiding any potencial RAID issues all together (as RAID 0 isnt really that important with SSD's performance-wise).. I don't think it's a drive issue and RAID 0 does actually significantly improve drive performance for any drive, including SSDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey Jeff, Mac has a very cool thing called Time Machine. It backs up every few minutes if it has to and you can recover from any point or the whole thing. It is VERY safe. I know you are a Windows guy but maybe you should see if there is something similar. All my workstations have their normal drives PLUS one big one that is just for Time Machine, so and can be resurrected quickly and with only a few minutes or an hour of work being lost. Big drives a cheap now... Now, more advice.... I always make sure that any Windows box I build has off the shelf hardware. OK, that sometimes means I forgo the very latest stuff but I can have a broken PC running again in an hour - and I have about 50 of them so I need things to be fast and easy! You may want to consider the notion. I am familiar with Time Machine, but the reason that works is that the Mac architecture is different than a PC. Acronis can do daily system mirrors automatically (if it's installed ) "off the shelf" hardware is a factor of whatever your vendor has in stock. What is off the shelf one week, might be out of stock the next. Likewise, what one vendor considered a special order item, another has 500 in stock. All comes down to service in my opinion. I can get the best service from my local reseller, than I can buying from an online store. And my local reseller will match online prices anyway. I still have not heard back from them, but it is very likely it's not a hardware issue, but rather a RAID driver issue, which would have been a problem with any hardware. The big problem is that I did not follow my own data recovery scheme and did not have a mirror of my OS drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 off the shelf hardware is a bad idea in your case because these boxes you buy are as small as possible to fit the configuration you made. You will never fit 3 cards in it to test the triple SLI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 off the shelf hardware is a bad idea in your case because these boxes you buy are as small as possible to fit the configuration you made. You will never fit 3 cards in it to test the triple SLI. ?? Both the MB and case of my system can handle triple SLI. The MB is designed specifically for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F J Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I don't think it's a drive issue and RAID 0 does actually significantly improve drive performance for any drive, including SSDs. only for large file transfers.. heh, u pointed it out urself when u highlighted how low ur 4K scores were on CrystalDiskMark.. i know this probably wasnt a drive issue, but rather a drive set up as RAID issue.. im just sayin' it would facilitate if they'd still let u make the trade.. im gettin' ready to get me that one Intel myself, since its the lead performer (by far) n the performance degradation drop is like 2% regardless of whether its TRIM enabled or running on Win7 or not.. just a suggestion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 ?? Both the MB and case of my system can handle triple SLI. The MB is designed specifically for that purpose. if there is physical space in the case then ok, but I always had problems fitting those graphics cards in boxes that I bought from the shelves of Best Buy and Circuit City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 only for large file transfers.. heh, u pointed it out urself when u highlighted how low ur 4K scores were on CrystalDiskMark.. i know this probably wasnt a drive issue, but rather a drive set up as RAID issue.. im just sayin' it would facilitate if they'd still let u make the trade.. im gettin' ready to get me that one Intel myself, since its the lead performer (by far) n the performance degradation drop is like 2% regardless of whether its TRIM enabled or running on Win7 or not.. just a suggestion.. I checked those Intel drives at Newegg, and boy they are expensive. There was a mention in the customer comments that they are getting more expensive with time because of the demand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 if there is physical space in the case then ok, but I always had problems fitting those graphics cards in boxes that I bought from the shelves of Best Buy and Circuit City. Yeah I don't buy off the shelf systems, I build mine from scratch and I have a HUGE case. Coolermaster Cosmos. Pics posted earlier in this thread. It weighs about 40 lbs! Was a chore hauling it from my car to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F J Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I checked those Intel drives at Newegg, and boy they are expensive. what r u talkin' about? they just cut the price by 60% just this summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Yeah I don't buy off the shelf systems, I build mine from scratch and I have a HUGE case. Coolermaster Cosmos. Pics posted earlier in this thread. It weighs about 40 lbs! Was a chore hauling it from my car to the shop. Oh, I dont mean go and buy a PC from Best Buy, I mean components. Cases are easy, they dont break down and you can reuse them for years, but drives, MBs, RAM, etc. For example, as soon as I could get away from SCSI RAIDS I did because I could never just walk in and buy a new drive if something went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 what r u talkin' about? they just cut the price by 60% just this summer! you're right! I was looking at the more expensive ones at http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010150636+50001157&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&Subcategory=636&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc= but they do have moderatly priced models. It seems the 160GB models are twice or more expensive than the 80GB ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 So I got a call from the shop today and it's official, one of the SSD Torqx drives failed. Unfortunately there are none left in stock in all of Canada, same with the OCZ drives. So they are contacting Patriot directly to have one air shipped in for Tuesday. If they can't get an identical one in, they will replace both of my drives with the new Patriot drives or one that is of equal speed of faster (like the Intel). Moral of the story...MIRROR your OS DRIVE as soon as you install! Serves me right for getting sloppy. arggg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 So I got a call from the shop today and it's official, one of the SSD Torqx drives failed. Unfortunately there are none left in stock in all of Canada, same with the OCZ drives. So they are contacting Patriot directly to have one air shipped in for Tuesday. If they can't get an identical one in, they will replace both of my drives with the new Patriot drives or one that is of equal speed of faster (like the Intel). Moral of the story...MIRROR your OS DRIVE as soon as you install! Serves me right for getting sloppy. arggg. ....Hence my "off the shelf" policy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvins_dad Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Wow! This thread has been really educational! Hadn't even thought of running the OS and programs off of a SSD. Thanks for the discussion, I will definitely be referring to this in the near future as I look at reaplacing two of our render machines at the office. Our Boxx systems are getting long in the tooth. What was the outcome of the drives? What did they end up replacing with and how is the system running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 Wow! This thread has been really educational! Hadn't even thought of running the OS and programs off of a SSD. Thanks for the discussion, I will definitely be referring to this in the near future as I look at reaplacing two of our render machines at the office. Our Boxx systems are getting long in the tooth. What was the outcome of the drives? What did they end up replacing with and how is the system running? Patriot could not send the Torqx drives I originally had as there was a shortage, so they replaced both of my drives (even though one one had failed) with the latest M28 Torqx series. Just picked it up and will be installing everything again this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 ...and doing a full back-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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