Devin Johnston Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Someone in our office had the bright idea to buy ArchiCAD instead of Revit and because of that they want to start buying Mac's to run it on. I'm a strict PC guy and don't know a thing about Mac's but I've heard that 3D Studio can run on it. I doubt we'd convert the whole office of 130+ machines over to Mac so the situation of running a hybrid render farm is a real possibility. Can anyone tell me what kind of problems I'd be facing with a setup like this and how well 3D Studio will perform on a Mac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 You'd need to use Bootcamp. I say "need" because in theory you can do it in VMWare but you really don't want to. Bootcamp makes the Mac, functionally, a PC. Same performance at same spec. In the newest Max version Bootcamp is even supported by Autodesk now. They do know that Archicad run on Windows (32 and 64)? I mean, look, I like Macs and I know that a Mac office can end up having lower IT costs than a Windows office. But switching platforms (or, worse, supporting two platforms) is a giant pain in the ass and you don't want it. At least your 1,024 Maxwell licenses will work on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Ha...you got me there We're running ArchiCAD on PC's now but we just hired a new ArchiCAD guru and he's recommending we start using Mac's. They've already asked my opinion and I've told them I don't think it's a good idea but you know how that goes. I was hoping to give them some technical reasons why mixing platforms was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The reasons aren't purely technical, they're also business. (And they have nothing to do with machine performance or even performance per dollar.) Mixing platforms is a bad idea and should only be done when necessary, because you need to have the servers support both (and this seems to break down in some unexpected way every time Apple or Microsoft changes something) and you need IT staff able to support both platforms. This is particularly difficult in a medium or large business with enough infrastructure to have standards and the ability to swap machines and copy drive images when things need fixing. You'll need to support both Outlook and Entourage. People will be using different versions of Office (and they say they're compatible, which is great until you run into the one feature that isn't). You won't be able to just assign somebody a Creative Suite license when they need it for a project. Different printers will have different levels of driver support. Your onscreen images won't look quite the same because the default monitor settings are different - they don't even use the same gamma or color temperature (and now you'll need to calibrate all the monitors). The "look" of the network drive mapping will be different and any time somebody screws up and hardcodes an Xref as "X:\Projects\" or whatever, it won't read on a Mac. The secretaries and any older people who only cope with computers because they've memorized steps will be calling IT staff any time somebody mentions a file in the Marketing directory in an email, when their Windows box shows the Marketing directory as the M drive. Every week somebody's going to complain about a peripheral that's only compatible with one platform or a bit of software they need that's Mac only, etc. And I know that it's easier to run IT in an Apple shop than a Windows shop, but having the Windows boxes mixed in will nullify all the benefits. In short, any advantage you gain by having Archicad running on OSX boxes will be more than compensated for by the hassles of having a mixed infrastructure - it's like a job site where half your hardware and tools are in inches and the other half are in metric. The guy who loves metric will talk about the advantages of it, but you'll need to have the imperial tools anyway. This will all cost extra money, and it will bring minimal benefit. So there are some of the costs. What are the benefits? Actually, I'm not very sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is all because that's what the Archicad guru is comfortable with, and that he's a techie type who hasn't grasped the business implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 So there are some of the costs. What are the benefits? Actually, I'm not very sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is all because that's what the Archicad guru is comfortable with, and that he's a techie type who hasn't grasped the business implications. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Kahawa Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 We use both in our office of 50+ staff. Well, I say both - everyone has a PC, and I have two Macs for rendering. One of the reasons I've recently gained a PC is, ironically, because they want us to do more rendering in ArchiCAD, and I also fancied migrating to 3D Studio and Vray at some point (currently on Form Z & Maxwell!) Although I don't know much on the tech side of things, it definitely is a pain for our network, and our IT support have had to learn Apple support very quickly. So I would advocate using a Mac, but not for the reasons you state, as both 3D Studio and ArchiCAD work fine (if not better) on a PC, as far as I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 Our ArchiCAD people say that ArchiCAD isn't as stable on a PC as it would be on a Mac, again this is all based on what our new guru is saying, he did come from an office that exclusively used Mac's. Since ArchiCAD was made to run intitally on a Mac I can see why this would be but there just seems to be to many problems associated with moving to a different platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 It'll be a better ROI to train the one staff member on PC use that to train everyone else on the Mac. I suspect IT would be in your corner as well to bolster that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Also I have never used Archicad but I know many people who do and I am pretty sure that no one I know has used it on a mac. So it does work on a pc. It is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 We've been using ArchiCAD on PC's exclusively for 10 years, that's why this is so absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 This 'expert' is the 'new girl on the block' - the Halo Effect will wear off shortly (hopefully). I use to administer a 400-node network that was different versions of Windows and that was a nightmare. I can only imagine how difficult it's going to be to support mixed hardware platforms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manta Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I would say unless you absolutely needed to run "Mac only" software like FCP or something, then just don't do it...it will be more problematic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 But the box that Macs come in is just so much prettier than anything a PC would. That is reason alone (Tongue is firmly in my cheek) jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiform 3D Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I am a Mac guy through and through, but I also own a lot of Windows boxes too. I am also a veteran ArchiCAD user. I also used to sell ArchiCAD and MAc computers a long time ago. ArchiCAD is an awesome product that really has no true competition out there, hence it's scary price. Revit is a long way from it. So I obviously support the whole switch to ArchiCAD thing. But as far as changing your setup over to Mac for this??? Well...... I did mention I am a Mac user.... But I cant say that I would recommend that someone makes a complete shift. To be honest, if I was doing just ArchiCAD work and already had the whole crew set up for it then I would stick with Windows. It will cost you less to build/buy Windows boxes that dont need all the fancy things you get with a Mac. I love my Macs. I use them every day, I do really cool stuff with them and I still run ArchiCAD on them, but seriously, switching a whole office of CAD people over to them just doesnt make sense. ArchiCAD comes multiplatform too, so you dont need to make license choices, you just get it and run it whatever you want. So introduce a Mac if you like, but dont go switching hardware everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M. Gruhn Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 > I was hoping to give them some technical reasons > why mixing platforms was a bad idea. "Spending the time, money, productivity and moral on switching a firm over for no better reason than the new kid is a platform bigot is stupid." Tell the new kid that he was hired to support the office. The office is not supposed to support him. If his answer is not "You are right. Sorry." fire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 Tell the new kid that he was hired to support the office. The office is not supposed to support him. If his answer is not "You are right. Sorry." fire him. This is the best suggestion I've heard yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 The reasons aren't purely technical, they're also business. (And they have nothing to do with machine performance or even performance per dollar.) Mixing platforms is a bad idea and should only be done when necessary, because you need to have the servers support both (and this seems to break down in some unexpected way every time Apple or Microsoft changes something) and you need IT staff able to support both platforms. This is particularly difficult in a medium or large business with enough infrastructure to have standards and the ability to swap machines and copy drive images when things need fixing. You'll need to support both Outlook and Entourage. People will be using different versions of Office (and they say they're compatible, which is great until you run into the one feature that isn't). You won't be able to just assign somebody a Creative Suite license when they need it for a project. Different printers will have different levels of driver support. Your onscreen images won't look quite the same because the default monitor settings are different - they don't even use the same gamma or color temperature (and now you'll need to calibrate all the monitors). The "look" of the network drive mapping will be different and any time somebody screws up and hardcodes an Xref as "X:\Projects\" or whatever, it won't read on a Mac. The secretaries and any older people who only cope with computers because they've memorized steps will be calling IT staff any time somebody mentions a file in the Marketing directory in an email, when their Windows box shows the Marketing directory as the M drive. Every week somebody's going to complain about a peripheral that's only compatible with one platform or a bit of software they need that's Mac only, etc. And I know that it's easier to run IT in an Apple shop than a Windows shop, but having the Windows boxes mixed in will nullify all the benefits. In short, any advantage you gain by having Archicad running on OSX boxes will be more than compensated for by the hassles of having a mixed infrastructure - it's like a job site where half your hardware and tools are in inches and the other half are in metric. The guy who loves metric will talk about the advantages of it, but you'll need to have the imperial tools anyway. This will all cost extra money, and it will bring minimal benefit. So there are some of the costs. What are the benefits? Actually, I'm not very sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that this is all because that's what the Archicad guru is comfortable with, and that he's a techie type who hasn't grasped the business implications. ...and then Andrew walked in with a can of whup-ass and a can-opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rygoody Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 mac users can at times get a bit too obedient to Apple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barringtonarch Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hi We run all of our ArchiCAD on macs. Since AC12 now makes use of dual cores it now runs very fast and stable, especially on the Mac Pros. I was talking to our local Revit reseller the other day and he was saying that under bootcamp/windows Revit runs really well, due to the Mac Pros being such powerful machines. However there doesn't seem much point in buying a Mac & then using it as a PC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barringtonarch Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 mac users can at times get a bit too obedient to Apple i agree i like & prefer macs. However i think a lot of people get far too attached to them. ArchiCAD runs just as well on a decent PC, buying a whole new office of Macs would be money spent better else where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now