EddieLeon Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Not only did this Chinese company blatantly rip-off my old website design, but they had the b@llz to offer their services to me. Things are really starting to get ridiculous! http://www.itopcg.com Here's the email: Dear manger director , How are you ? Thanks for your attention . We are I Top Time digital design Co.,Ltd ,which located in Shenzhen ,china. We focus on 3d architectural design (renderings ,animation, physical model and so on ) . Maybe we can be your partner . We can help you save time and money . Enclosed are our sample works .Hope you like them . Welcome to contact me and share your thoughts with me . Best regards wendy lu project manager I TOP Time digital design Co.,Ltd adress:Room10D,Building1,DushiYangguangMingyuan,Chengongmiao Shennan Road,Shenzhen,china. Tel:86 85 82047490 Fax:86 0755 82048455 Mobile:86 15920039085 Email:szitop2@163.com MSN:wendy_itop@live.cn Website:http://www.itopcg.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horhe Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Its almost identical! Just missing some black vines at the top if I remember correctly. Wow, unbelievable. I would say the previous Spine web page was a template when looking at this. Perphaps they thought you would be flattered, since they took your design, they liked it a lot. Or they tought that you would think that its your company writing to you LOL. Total rip-off. Reminds me of the old dbox page, and Pure previous page was also ripped off. So is KPF. Lots and lots of this going on sadly. The internet should be cleaned up, and there should be some kind of internet police looking around and banning people that copy and do other stupid stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mi75 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I got the exact, to the letter, email from them last Friday regarding my Australian business. One hell of a bulk email! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Zaslavsky Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 well maybe some consultants are falling for it ... i've heard enough nightmare stories of using overseas suppliers that most developers in melbourne have realised its better to pay a little bit more to the local suppliers that can be contacted and seen in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vladin Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 And you are not the only one who should be flattered, Eddie! Image No.15 in their main gallery is amazingly similar to this Dellis Cay Dbox image > Which is not a bad thing,after all, as it only shows how influential companies like Spine3D and DBox are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strayrender Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Not nice when someone uses or copies your work. I guess it's similar to the music industry when people just randomly use your work. Must be frustrating for them to see that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dollus Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 we had the same thing happen a couple years ago with a different company. Our company name even appeared when you hovered over their logo. They took it down and blamed a contractor they used to create the site. It was resolved quickly but is sooo annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDillon Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Sorry to see that. I actually thought I was looking at your old website. Remember the Communist Chinese don't honor, care, or give a rats ass about you and your company. They are the biggest copiers of all. Zero innovation, it's all reverse engineering. I hate to see this happening. But that's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Ant they bought Chrysler's Hummer vehicle!! I think that's very sad. No way they're gonna maintain the same standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inxa Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Was their email 10mbish in size. Cause I keep getting their emails which are around 5 - 10 mb everyday. Is there anything one can do against site design rip offs. Image you can watermark, what about site-design. I don't know whether I had missed to see it earlier, the new Spine3d site looks very nice. Edited August 22, 2009 by Inxa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotristan3d Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I was in Shanghai a few months back, and I can see a lot of familiar buildings that I thought was in Europe or north america. there was this kpf building that i'm so sure was in portland, but somehow it was in shanghai. they even have a le corbusier! so if a built project can be copied, websites and illustrations are easy prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohinder Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Sorry to have to say this and I'm not defending them in anyway, but I think the website design is pretty generic by anyones standard. Rolling header with alternating examples of work, immediately followed by a few more images from there portfolio and a news section with a tagged on side bar? Could be anyone of a hundread similiar website design i've seen. Whats there to rip off? (Stunning work on your new website btw, though the accompanying music is probably quite unnecessary! Edited August 22, 2009 by mohinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhodesy Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 im afraid i'd have to agree with mohinder, although I can't quite remember the original Spine3D one. To me it does look quite generic - not saying it's not nice but rather, id not be at all surprised if it was a template site. The new Spine one is much better and original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hey Everyone, Thanks for your feedback. I guess the general and obvious consensus is that we shouldn't be ripping off sites (Even if they look like templates). The fact is the old Spine3D site was NOT a template. However, the new one IS based on a Flash/xml template It cost me $40 and I built/edited it in about 4 days. I didn't want to spend too much time or money on a custom site. I also concluded that we are selling 3d and not web design services so it didn't really matter. I hope the work speaks for itself. Sorry if I disappointed anyone with my web skills... Now back to the old site. I wondered if I should even care that it was copied now that I changed my site. I agree the old site was quite generic and I was happy to get rid of it. But, I felt a strong reaction to seeing it copied so closely. I did not feel flattered. In fact, I started to feel very concerned about our industry. That's why I wanted to share it with everyone. I have been trying to convince iTopCG to change the design. I am not threatening any legal action. I would just like to see it changed. They are refusing. Here is Wendy's latest comment to me. It makes absolutely no sense: "take an example : If some one who really looks like you ,and you met him in some day, will you asked him disappear ?Because he also has been duplicated ?" My first reaction to this was: I'm going to ignore this email. You can't reason with someone this clueless. So, I basically said to her that she's making a mistake and will regret it. Anyway, the main point I would like to make here is that after 9 years of successfully growing a 3d company I have come to the conclusion that our segment of the arch viz market is pretty much history. Why? Because it's no longer about the art. Anyone in this world (regardless of skill or intelligence) can copy the website and work of established 3d companies and successfully compete in our market. Granted that their work and customer service will not be the same, but we all know that our clients will hire companies like iTopCG anyway. They really don't care what website or projects they have copied. They just want cheap fast 3d. On the other hand, there are clients that will continue to pay a premium for "Top" quality 3d and customer service (after the recession). Those are the ones that I will focus on. I might also start a web design company By the way, if any of you are interested in reminiscing on my old site you can see it here: http://www.spine3d.com/index2.php (Only the homepage works). And as proof that I actually paid someone to program my design you can see their site here: http://www.mobiusinteractive.com/portfolio/web/spine3d08.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic H Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 yes - arch viz is pretty much like drafting nowdays, 99% is just mindless replication of sunny days, fluorescent grass and timber floors. there is so little art or attempt at orginality / ideas in arch viz its mildly depressing. (actually this is probably another whole thread) i very much hope to see this 'iTop CG' go broke and fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strayrender Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I really think you are turning this into something it is not. To say you have "come to the conclusion that our segment of the arch viz market is pretty much history" is a bit over the top. Your business model is based on outsourcing, who's to say you did not put companies out of business who refused to take this cheaper route. Now you are feeling the worry that so many others felt about outsourcing in the form of this company coming along with cheaper prices. You say it's no longer about the art but you were quoted as saying "We thought we could rake it in" in regards to the Miami market. To me this is what makes you an extremely good business man but I think it's hypocritical of you to say it's no longer about the art. You seem to ignore my post about the music in your animations but I was trying to make the point that if you did not pay a license fee to use that music your were doing the exact thing you are trying to rally against. Now if you did pay for licenses for those songs, put me right, I would be happy to be wrong. Edited August 26, 2009 by strayrender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Alex, It seems like you have an axe to grind with me so I won't go down that road with you. Sorry. Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strayrender Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) No axe to grind, just wanted to point out you were being hypocritical. If you can't handle that, fair enough. You don't seem to want to address the music issue, you ignored it before which I was fine by me. But then you got on your high horse about a company copying your old website. To make it clear, I don't agree with anybody ripping off somebody's art, whichever form that takes. Edited August 26, 2009 by strayrender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I have come to the conclusion that our segment of the arch viz market is pretty much history. Why? Because it's no longer about the art. I came to that conclusion a long time ago, and that is why I try to keep the focus of my work on the art aspect. On the one hand, that means I'm working within a niche of a niche industry, but on the other, gives me the opportunity to make what I do a unique service vs. a commodity product. Whatever post-recession success I see will come from marketing an artistic approach to those clients who can appreciate it and justify paying more than the best available price--which will never be me. It may not work, but that's the future of rendering for me. Or I do something else. When an industry forces you to become something you never wanted to be, you may need to move on instead of compromising your ideals. But a changing playing field will reward those who can change with it and still master the game. No set answer. Here is Wendy's latest comment to me. It makes absolutely no sense: "take an example : If some one who really looks like you ,and you met him in some day, will you asked him disappear ?Because he also has been duplicated ?" My wife used to say I looked a lot like Matt Dillon, the actor. OK. I happened to pass him on the street a few years ago, and thought there was a decent resemblance. However he is very tall and I am not. And my renderings are much better than his. So the resemblance is interesting but meaningless. However, were I trying to go into acting, a close resemblance to an established player becomes an issue, and that is why that response was so off-base. Also, we do not choose our looks, but we do choose to copy someone's commercial identity. I would say 'let it go' with the copied former website. I can understand why you are bothered by it, but the other company isn't sorry and its just going to consume your time fighting to preserve your rights to something you no longer want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDillon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Eddie, I am sure you know this but don't threaten anything unless you are going to follow through 100%. I am not sure what type of law would be enforced since China follows it's own rules. This recession has been long and hard on everyone (no jokes please). It will force use to look around for other opportunities. When you see one be sure to grab it and run with it. Thank You, Jason Dillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I would say 'let it go' with the copied former website. I can understand why you are bothered by it, but the other company isn't sorry and its just going to consume your time fighting to preserve your rights to something you no longer want. Thanks Matt! I mean Ernest JK Really, thanks for your advice and great points. I do plan on letting it go. I just want everyone to be aware of what happened and what we are all facing. Maybe I'm making too big of a deal about it. I am sure you know this but don't threaten anything unless you are going to follow through 100%. I am not sure what type of law would be enforced since China follows it's own rules. This recession has been long and hard on everyone (no jokes please). It will force use to look around for other opportunities. When you see one be sure to grab it and run with it. Thanks Jason. It wouldn't be worth spending a penny on legal fees on those fools. I agree our time and money is better spent looking for new opportunities. Product Viz and Interactive Web seem to be the best alternatives so far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 What are realistic legal solutions anyway? I mean if a company in China took your exact website and took your exact renderings changed, to name to Spine 4d and changed the contact info... What could you do? Seems like it would be almost impossible to enforce anything overseas. Even if you won a court case how could you force them to take the site down? I don't know but could you even force a company in Canada to remove their work if they copied from you? I really don't know how easy it is to enforce anything overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 What are realistic legal solutions anyway? I mean if a company in China took your exact website and took your exact renderings changed, to name to Spine 4d and changed the contact info... What could you do? Seems like it would be almost impossible to enforce anything overseas. Even if you won a court case how could you force them to take the site down? Actually, there is something that you can do if the domain name is similar and the industry they are targeting is the same as yours. It's quite easy and you don't need to spend too much on lawyers. All you need to do is file a case with the National Arbitration Forum: http://domains.adrforum.com/ If you prove your case they will have the isp shut down the site asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strayrender Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I guess this is kind of like a cease and desist letter if you use someone's music without permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieLeon Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hey Everyone. I would like to give you an update. ITopCG has kindly agreed to change their website design. They say they purchased the design from a designer who told them it was a template. Anything can happen in China so I will believe that ITopCG didn't copy the site intentionally. I sincerely appreciate their acceptance to change the design. Also, I look forward to seeing their new website and will encourage them to post it here so we can all give them some positive feedback. Thank you all again for your feedback and advice on this matter. It was very helpful!! Sincerely, Eddie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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