seismograph Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Don't get me wrong, but subscribing a newsletter these days sadly means to accept ads in the newsletter, but today i got a "newsletter free" ad from CGArchitecture, which makes no sense to me for one reason: HP respects your privacy. If you'd like to discontinue receiving e-mails from HP regarding special offers and information, please click here.(-> link to a CGA webpage which lforwards to a HP webpage) I can't unsubscribe from the HP newsletter when i haven't subscribed to it. Anyone else got this mail? Is it a good idea to accept this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattclinch Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 yes i got this, but accept that if this is the only price to keep these forums open and free then then odd bit of ad-mail is an inconsiquential cost to pay. hitting delete took a fraction of a second.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankit4d Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Humm..i know cost of running a website and forum like CGA is huge. I really appreciate efforts by CGarchitect owners. but is it fine to share or resell private information with third parties for commercial purpose. When i click on unsubscribe link of this newsletter, it leads to Hp unsubscription page. If this is a email from CGA administrators than the unsubscription button should lead to a CGA page, as i never subscibed to Hp. Correct me if i am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughie Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I second Matt on this one, it is a small price to pay to access this site. Im not 100% on this one, but if you follow the link it will help CGA secure more advertising from HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seismograph Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure if you mixing two different things. You can use your newsletter to promote products from company xyz .. no problem , because if i don't want it anymore or if the newsletter don't make sense because of to many ads i still can unsubscribe from this newsletter. And this is - maybe not only for me - the problem with this mail from the CGA newsletter. I can't unsubscribe, because i never subscribed to the HP newsletter and if i want to unsubscribe the HP "special offer" newsletter, i give HP my addy without the prove that i don't get HP "Digicam firmware update" newsletter or any other newsletters. The unclear situation is that cgA is willing to subscribe me (for money?) to Newsletters i don't want. ..what's next .. MS, Apple, Google, Dell? I have to unsubscribe all this "newsletters" which are IMHO Spam because i don't want it in my mailbox. making money with a website and ads is ok - no problem ...but crossing a border to privacy isn't ok. Edited August 25, 2009 by seismograph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koper Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think of it as keeping me up to date with the current hardware or software and have got no problem with this. Only when we start getting emails through cga advertising Viagra or something then I'll get bothered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattclinch Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm not sure if you mixing two different things. You can use your newsletter to promote products from company xyz .. no problem , because if i don't want it anymore or if the newsletter don't make sense because of to many ads i still can unsubscribe from this newsletter. And this is - maybe not only for me - the problem with this mail from the CGA newsletter. I can't unsubscribe, because i never subscribed to the HP newsletter and if i want to unsubscribe the HP "special offer" newsletter, i give HP my addy without the prove that i don't get HP "Digicam firmware update" newsletter or any other newsletters. The unclear situation is that cgA is willing to subscribe me (for money?) to Newsletters i don't want. ..what's next .. MS, Apple, Google, Dell? I have to unsubscribe all this "newsletters" which are IMHO Spam because i don't want it in my mailbox. making money with a website and ads is ok - no problem ...but crossing a border to privacy isn't ok. the email was from noreply-newsletter@cgarchitect.com, not HP. i would suggest that the newsletter is HP's and CGA has just reused the HP newsletter as their sponser newsletter, which includes the original HP unsubscribe links etc. i'm sure nothing has been sold to HP - just a rehashing of a HP newsletter as the CGA HP sponsor newsletter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amer abidi Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Funny, I Usually get emails from CGarchitect OK, this one, however, automatically went straight into my spam folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ankit4d Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I agree with seismograph. It is perfectly OK for CGA to send newsletter with advertisement to support website and forum. But user must be able to unsubscribe from the mailing list with a simple link and this would differentiate it from a Spam mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I support advertising in the newletters, but not advertising without newletters, to me that is spam. HP or Viagra its spam. Why must something be vulgar before its considered spam? Maybe I missed something when I signed up for the newletter, as whenever I sign up for them, I always make sure I request not to be put on other mailing lists jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I think, according to US Spam Laws (which don't affect me in Australia and CGA is based in Canada), there has to be an easy "opt out" link for the person receiving the e-mail. I was confused at first when I got the email, but I guess as long as CGA keeps the mailing list to themselves, they aren't violating our privacy. I mean, what would we do without this website? What would I do all day!? hehe I've said this before - introduce a monthly, semi-annual, or annual subscription service and offer those folks premium service (i.e. more PMs (I'm maxed out), a portfolio similar to CGSociety, etc). For a one-off investment of coding time, the website would then continue to bring in $$$. I know SQL and VBScript but I think this site is running on unix/linux servers, otherwise I'd donate some programming time. Everyone bitched about the rip-page in the corner, but did anyone even say "thanks for looking at alternate advertising arrangments"? It was positioned to intentionally catch a wandering mouse movement and get the ad it promoted some exposure. I get spam more than I get e-mail, so this didn't ruffle my feathers, but I think I would have preferred an email preceding it, letting us know "this is to generate money for the website. click on the link, then trash the email." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneis Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I think, according to US Spam Laws (which don't affect me in Australia and CGA is based in Canada), there has to be an easy "opt out" link for the person receiving the e-mail. The same applies here Joel. You can check the ins-and-outs at the ACMA website... http://www.acma.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WEB/STANDARD/1001/pc=PC_310294 As far as it stands, for the sender of a commercial email to be considered as not spamming, they must satisfy all the following: 1. They must have your consent to send the advertising mail to you, 2. The sender must clearly identify themselves or the organisation that has the sent the email, 3. They must provide a direct and functional unsubscribe option for the recipient (you) so you can opt out of receiving messages from the source (the sender). So, In effect, by subscribing to the CGA site, we have "opted-in" to advertising mail from this site only. We all have an option in our user control panels to allow/ disallow the Site Administrator to send email to our personal email addresses. If you don't want this advertising mail again, uncheck the option and you shouldn't receive any more mail of this nature. By sending an advertisement on behalf of HP (email's content) yet using the persona of CGA (email's header information), we have offically been spammed - by a third party on behalf of HP. However, had we received an email from CGA Adminin the form of an actual newsletter tha also contained a note informing us that one of CGA's sponsers had a particular "thing we might be interseted in" and gave us a link to that information at another location, we would not have been spammed (refer to above point - subscribing). As an example, the forums often have sponsor-related news posted by Jeff... we can read the thread title and then choose whether or not we view the relevent info. The spam email in question does give us an option to unsubscribe or "opt-out" of futrther advertising mail from HP only - not from CGA. As the sender was not HP, the unsubscribe option is effectively useless. Again, that qualifies the mail as spam. Long-story-short (and note to Jeff): We understand the commercial and economical needs of yourself and the site, also that it's a reality that sites like this can't survive without sponsors. We just need an option somewhere in our user control panels to opt-in/out in regards to advertising mail from CGA sent on behalf of your company's sponsors. That's all, nothing big, just a box to tick/ untick. That way you're covered at both ends and we have the ability to give consent. Keep up the good work. Edited August 25, 2009 by shaneis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Wow, I see this this has caused quite a stir, so let me clarify a few things. This email was indeed sent FROM cgarchitect from our servers. HP never sees or received your information or email address. In fact we have to parse our own list to send these newsletters against existing opt-out lists to ensure anyone who does not want to receive HP emails does not. In the future I'll also include a link to the main CGA newsletter unsubscribe page as well as the sponsor unsubscribe link , although that hurts us more than anything, but it seems most of you would prefer we not do anything to make money with this site. As we are continually reminded. You can unsubscribe from the newsletter from the homepage as well (right column). I feel like a broken record, but it seems nothing I say will ever convince people that I'm entitled to earn a small living from this site. I think receiving the occasional email in your inbox is a small price to pay to help keep this site alive. I can tell you right now, that with the economy the way it is and the reduced advertiser spending this site WILL go away if our current advertisers are not supported. I'm dead serious about this. We could add a fee to even visit this site, but it would costs you hundreds of dollars per year and I highly doubt that would be a sustainable business model as that is not how people are used of interacting with websites. What I can tell you is that it is both demoralizing and disheartening to work so damn hard on this site to only have people complain about a small inconveniences like page peel ad, emails, newsletters etc. I honestly don't know what the solution is but I can tell you that when our new online store opens in a month or so that we will be advertising those products as well. I'm busting my ass day and night (literally) trying to develop new revenue streams for the site so that I can keep it and my family afloat, but all of them will require marketing these services and offerings to you in emails, banners, newsletters etc. Some days I seriously wonder why I bother. I'm here on vacation for three weeks with my wife's family, and I've spent the vast majority of it working on my laptop so I can get these new projects done before I personally run out of money. Yes that's right, I am burning through my personal savings to keep this site open for you guys. What a wonderful encouraging post to wake up to in the morning...really made my day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLynn Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 +1 for Jeff. Christian et al, is getting an ad in your email really so bad? If you don't like it hitting delete takes less than 1 second. How much time does having a site specifically for architecture CG save you? Also, I thought it was pretty obvious that the email was sent from CGA, not HP, and the inclusion of the HP unsubscribe link was a harmless mistake. Jeff: you bother because despite this stuff you know your web site is a helpful service and very well respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koper Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 +2 One of the site rules are "constructive criticism" - didn't happen here and something that should be looked at by us all. And I'm pretty sure Jeff can add another rule as to how cga uses advertising 'take it or leave it' and I'm pretty sure cga ads will only be bound within our own industry, hence the Viagra comment earlier. The HP add and a Viagra add is not the same. The HP add is clearly aimed at a target market well in the construct of professionalism and productivity. oh Jeff, honestly, I am actually missing the page peal as it showed the best images where it was just so easy to get inspiration. Jeff, you're doing a gr8 job, pls keeeeep it up! A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 As the Business Dev Director for CGA, I have quite a bit to say about this particular thread. I respectfully disagree with the notion that sending out a dedicated email blast with a product that is appropriate to the people reading it is vulgar or is the equivalent to viagra. The main thing I hope you all keep in mind is that CGA never sells the email names or the list to ANYONE. The reason you have the chance to opt out is so that when we do another dedicated email message, your name won't be on it. Spam laws require we always have a supress list, and the idea that HP is collecting your "opt-outs" for insidious purposes is absurd. Having said that, CGA does allow access to our audience through advertising. Unless we take the site private, and begin charging each of you for access, there is no other viable/realistic options for maintaining a community and news site of this caliber. As it is, Jeff and I work many hours for free on the site, Jeff in development, interviews, and product reviews, and me in responding to and selling ads on the site to help those advertisers with relevant products and services reach our special audience--which all of you are! We only do these dedicated email blasts for our best clients, and you will only ever see one of these per month, max. In the scope of issues in the world, is it really that disturbing? What about the people who are looking for information about the best workstations out there and who appreciate receiving the info? I understand that it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but please have the awareness that this is a community, as well as a business, and perhaps rather than getting upset over such a small thing, you might just click on a sponsor's banner/ad and help support the site. Thanks for your support. Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seismograph Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 no no Andrew, deleting mails is not a problem ..it's just ...i don't want such mails because i recognise them as spam and saying nothing would be like accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmccoy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 a little off topic Everyone bitched about the rip-page in the corner, but did anyone even say "thanks for looking at alternate advertising arrangments"? It was positioned to intentionally catch a wandering mouse movement and get the ad it promoted some exposure. This was pretty neat (yet annoying sometimes) The work that was shown was on it was really cool. I know I clicked the ad to see more about that picture. I'm actually glad we have relevant ads on this website. I just wish we had more of a variety of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 In this economy, we are happy to have the support from those we do, and if anyone would like info on how to advertise on CGA, by all means email me for our current media kit and rate card. kpopp@cgarchitect.com. Ads are a part of our day-to-day life, like it or not. Jeff and I are very aware not just of the companies who are advertising, but whenever anyone seeks to advertise we make sure that there is a "match" and that we are not just running advertising for the sake of advertising. As I think about it more, maybe I should go after Viagra for this site, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devin Johnston Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Jeff you just can't please some people, if it bugs them that much they can opt out of the e-mail list and quit visiting the site and that's as much consideration as I'd give this issue. We all have to make money by providing a service, Is what CGA does any different from what you and your companies do when they send out mass mailers trying to drum up business, I think not. Quit whining people, if this site disapears we are all going to loose a tremendous resource that so far only costs us a few kilobites in our inboxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmccoy Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 As I think about it more, maybe I should go after Viagra for this site, lol! Maybe no Viagra, that means we are not getting any work done. I think Red Bull, Monster, Rockstar, Vault, any energy drink, etc... would be appropriate for those of us that do all-nighters to finish project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Erstad Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Whoa, whoa hold on there. What is the deal? The advertising from CGA, television & cable programming and - yes, probably even from your own firm - is and will remain a necessary evil for some time to come. I've silently noticed some of the griping surrounding these types of subjects and find it a bit absurd. Lets be a bit pragmatic, this site is for profit. Considering quality and cost of the advice and resources available through it, an occasional industry relevant ad coming into my inbox or a page peel is nothing in comparison. I could make a joke about all the spam that results from your late night "internet research", but I won't. Get back to work now. Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Warner Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't care if Jeff had sold my email address to HP. I know that at least it's relevant to what I'm interested in seeing anyways. Plus, if it makes Jeff some money by doing so, more power to him. Now you'll have to excuse me, I'm off to click on some banners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 . . . We only do these dedicated email blasts for our best clients, and you will only ever see one of these per month, max. . . . Bump it up to once a week if you want, if it helps to support this site. I think the majority of us would not mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernest Burden III Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 ...i don't want such mails because i recognise them as spam and saying nothing would be like accepting it... I accept it. I recognize the need for CGA to be advertising-based for revenue. I'm paying nothing to use it. Hopefully my contributions ad to the site's overall value, and if so my reward is being proud to help and having a great site with great friends and colleagues to converse with, teach and learn from. I would venture that this site is worth its weight in gold, as they say (assuming a site has a weight). What Jeff has built and we have added to is about as valuable an asset as our industry could have. Take all of my father's books, and all others on rendering, ad in the professional societies and any of the occasional educational courses and advertising vehicles, and it would not equal what we've got here. So delete the emails if you don't like them, or opt out. But when you need help and come here for it, remember that you refused to help keep the site going in this important way. I greatly appreciate the work that Jeff and his staff do to find advertisers who are relevant to my business. I own products from many of them, and am open to what is offered by many others. Keep up the great work, Jeff Karen and team CGA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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