acjwalker Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Myself and my team are getting busier and busier and I know at some point we are going to have to hire. But I was discussing with the company director about a junior. Where do I start looking for one. Idealy I want a university grad with experience in 3D but doesnt have to be arch viz. What do you guys do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronll Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Not sure "junior" translates from English to American very well. Do you mean an apprentice or journeyman? Fully paid or for the training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy L Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You could pay to post an ad in the 'jobs' section of this website.....or is that kind of what this post is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Definately get one with some form of background, education in building, interiors or arch of some kind. You can have a junior brush up on 3d skills and even learn vray, but having to keep showing them typical terminology, scale, proportion and basic construction is going to waste your valuable time. Its also a common problem that artists not from an arch background will do some architecture 3D and then decide they want to work in games or broadcast leaving you after they have taught themselves from you. Consider this. Your rate is 120/hour (960/day), juniors rate is 50/hr (400/day). You spend 2 hours of your day 'helping' the junior with tips, tricks etc. His rate is now 640/day and you have less time in your day. Think carefully about what skills you can teach within your work time and how best to mentor the junior. I would personally get someone out of a design college that LOVES doing 3D, he/she will have a passion for it and also have a sense and respect for architectural design/presentation. These people are usually lurking around evermotion, here, cgtantra etc etc brushing up on new skills. Post ads on these places, its where you will find the ones that do this night and day. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandmanNinja Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 A Junior is usually someone with schooling but limited experience, Casual (i.e. not full time), and generally paid below the industry standard (since they are getting experience). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koper Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 whooof hehe, my title is still junior although i'm already 3years at my company and have been moved up into our animation team. guess the title haven't been updated I think a better word to use for you're mean is 'intern' or 'intern ship' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BVI Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 What about approaching the local colleges/ design schools? You might be able to swing over a top student over their vacation break etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGrover Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Its also a common problem that artists not from an arch background will do some architecture 3D and then decide they want to work in games or broadcast leaving you after they have taught themselves from you. I actually think there's an element of the other-way-around, too. A lot of the strides in Arch-Viz, especially for animated Arch Viz - I mean the sort of stuff from D-Box and Uniform - has been grabbed straight from film. Advanced comping techniques, multi-pass rendering, efficiency techniques etc. A lot of these things have been developed and honed under film, and chances are these things would have seeped into our industry at a much, much slower rate had everyone simply hired those with an arch-viz background. There's a lot we can learn from the animation and games guys, and one of the best ways is to hire them. Consider this. Your rate is 120/hour (960/day), juniors rate is 50/hr (400/day). You spend 2 hours of your day 'helping' the junior with tips, tricks etc. His rate is now 640/day and you have less time in your day. But that's not just lost time, that's an investment. Yes, they could just up and leave tomorrow, but that's the same with all staff, surely? You won't be spending two hours a day forever - It'll get progressively less and less over time, up until the point where they can then be teaching new juniors tricks and tips that you, in turn, have taught them. Their value rises, not only because you're spending time on them, but because that knowledge imparted to them develops them as artists and technicians, and makes them more efficient and thus better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acjwalker Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 I have aproached a couple of my old lectures at the unicersity of teesside, middlesbrough as I did a computer animation course. THe sort of Junior/Intern we would need at some point is someone full time. they would start on a low wage but as they get better money would increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I actually think there's an element of the other-way-around, too. A lot of the strides in Arch-Viz, especially for animated Arch Viz - I mean the sort of stuff from D-Box and Uniform - has been grabbed straight from film. Advanced comping techniques, multi-pass rendering, efficiency techniques etc. A lot of these things have been developed and honed under film, and chances are these things would have seeped into our industry at a much, much slower rate had everyone simply hired those with an arch-viz background. There's a lot we can learn from the animation and games guys, and one of the best ways is to hire them. But that's not just lost time, that's an investment. Yes, they could just up and leave tomorrow, but that's the same with all staff, surely? You won't be spending two hours a day forever - It'll get progressively less and less over time, up until the point where they can then be teaching new juniors tricks and tips that you, in turn, have taught them. Their value rises, not only because you're spending time on them, but because that knowledge imparted to them develops them as artists and technicians, and makes them more efficient and thus better value. Good points Dan. And I agree with you to some extent for sure. My only concern is that if its your first junior, first addition to the team, you need a turn key artist, someone that will be able to pick up fast and stay with you. I have hired lots of artists in the past and have lost a few good ones that eventually realized they wanted to be 'in the movies' or making games. I completely respect that decision, but it looks bad on you as a hiring manager when there is little payback to your investment. I completely agree that you have to invest in your staff, both in time and training. But if you know that person is unsure of where they want to be, that investment isn't a very safe one. The market is so competitive right now, if an artist doesnt know for sure that they want to do this for the foreseeable future, then they are probably not the right person. You make a great point about hiring different backgrounds and with a larger team and more advertising related clients, and definately in firms like Dbox, Neoscpae and others, you have the luxury of creating a cross disciplinary team to gel skills and backgrounds together. But in these firms there is more scope to float skillsets across departments and projects so you can be assured they are billable most of the time. This is an amazing team model, one I understand Uniform and Squint Opera use also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlytE Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Its also a common problem that artists not from an arch background will do some architecture 3D and then decide they want to work in games or broadcast leaving you after they have taught themselves from you. Two directors are talking about justifying the high costs of training staff. One director turns to the other and says "Well... what happens if we spend all this time and money training them and they just leave?"..... the other director responds "Well what happens if we DON'T spend all this time and money training them, and they stay?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Awesome!!!!!!! So true! :D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acjwalker Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Two directors are talking about justifying the high costs of training staff. One director turns to the other and says "Well... what happens if we spend all this time and money training them and they just leave?"..... the other director responds "Well what happens if we DON'T spend all this time and money training them, and they stay?" My god! that is perfect I always nag about traing, I train myself! They say I can have training but never appears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawzy Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Just figured I may throw in some input since I've only been in the biz for about two years. I was recruited directly from college. The bossman had a connection to one of my instructors and organized a critique session with him so he could get a feel for the potential talent of the students. He came to the class right after we completed our mid-term projects, checked out everyone's work and gave all of us feedback, and had us hand over a resume/portfolio for him to evaluate. Then he set up some interviews, met with a few of us one on one, and I managed to beat the others through the gauntlet. It seemed to work out well for both parties as I absolutely love my job, and they must be happy enough with my abilities to still keep me on through the recent rough times. As a positive note, even if he had shown up and hadn't seen any work that interested him, it was a great experience for me as a student. It sort of placed an added drive and desire to improve on the critiques and develope myself as an artist. I think starting out in the courses, I didn't have much of an idea as to what career oppurtunities it would present to me, and it's a good way for the students to learn from an expert, or at least pick up some more info on avenues they might tread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 well said. Just a couple of weeks I met with a guy who approached me he wanted to work for me and learn from me, I really wanted to offer him the job but my wife insisted that he will leave as soon as he is good. I am kinda sad about that because I want someone to talk to during the day while working as days get boring sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iftikhar Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 It's interesting that you should have brought it up. I've been doing some research and what you have mention does work, to a certain extend. Its also a common problem that artists not from an arch background will do some architecture 3D and then decide they want to work in games or broadcast leaving you after they have taught themselves from you. Thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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