abowen Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 i am curious about the affect of nvidia's new reality server on our profession (sorry cant add links) it seems to me a little counter intuitive for nvidia to provide this service, as i think it will cannibalize their hi end video card market. what do you guys / gals think? .... one step closer to push button visualization ? LOL andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Homeless Guy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 it seems to me a little counter intuitive for nvidia to provide this service, as i think it will cannibalize their hi end video card market. Iray needs high end nVidia cards to run. The demo they showed used something like 15 high end cards together. These cards run $2500-$3000 a piece. That seems the opposite of cannibalization to me. Actually, it is forward thinking of them to start investing in this area. It really isn't going to be any more push button than what things are now. The scenes still need set up, still need customized, and will still need a technology oriented artist to make things pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abowen Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 travis in the info i saw .... comments were made that iray will be run on reality server on any low end system (even iphones/smartphones) maybe you saw something i did not :-) i do agree though that there will always be a need for the artist to set up a scene . i am wondering how willing architects will be to pay for services when it becomes so easy Hardware wise) to execute renderings. take a look (add www to link) youtube.com/watch?v=Q-I58PPMPfs andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctk111 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 You're talking two things here. First, iray is nvidia's real time render. Second, reality server is a mental ray product for remote rendering. All rendering happens server side and is then sent back to the computer. This is why they're saying you can eventually view these things on your iphone, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I find these kind of threads really funny, Iray, VrayRT CausticRT etc ect are just tools. Do carpenters complain when ever a new, easier to use power saw comes out? No they go out and buy it if it makes their job easier and quicker, because at the end of the day time is money. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abowen Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 i agree wit hyou about these being tools ...... no argument there ..... what i am trying to get at is the "influence" these tools will have on our industry . history is littered with examples of new tools changing the game ,sometimes for the better AND sometimes for the worst. i am not closing my eyes to the impact these tools will have to my clients and hence they will effect my company..... godd or bad. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odouble Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 There will always be a market for high end renderings. Architects really would prefer to focus their resources on design for the most part. It is true that the future of rendering is pointing towards realtime GI solutions with all the GPU advances. I believe it will only prove to most architects that want to do high quality pieces that pressing buttons and great hardware is not all it takes. There is a lot more besides hardware hosepower and technology that goes into great 3d presentations. That being said, studios will have less headaches with changes and additions during the production process because of the new technology. That has been the case over the last couple of years, so it should be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 As a tool to be used in design development model that are done in-house, I cant wait for it to be implemented. One of the biggest bottlenecks in the process is waiting for renders, even test renders. As a tool for high end, if I can get to the point of hitting the "Final Render" button can be reach sooner, great more profit for me. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) I posted a number of high quality iray demos last week on our YouTube Channel here: http://www.youtube.com/user/CGarchitectTV I don't agree that these new technologies are not going to change anything. Certainly the "artists" touch is always a valid argument at the high end of the market, but I don't think the full potential of this technology is being considered. Within 5 years the speed of GPU computing WILL literally bring rendering to a push button technology and democratize rendering far more than it is now. It's almost there now. (Read my article here: http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/Reviews/Review069_1.asp). Technology is already being created to make shader creation push button and the speed and ease that apps like iray bring to the table will remove almost all of the technical barriers that you see now with trying to achieve a clean render. If you can place a light, you'll be able to produce a photoreal render. Again that does not consider the high end marketing imagery, but that that only accounts for a very small percentage of the industry. We're talking about enabling all facets of the design industry to create high quality renderings with little or no experience. While the price is high for the GPUs now, it's not that much more than building your own render farm. It's only a matter of time before the speed of ultra low cost GPUs will allow for real-time rendering. Where Reality server comes into play, in addition to allowing companies to build GPU farms, is also to allow 3rd parties to offer rendering as a SaaS. Autodesk is already experimenting with high end 3d apps like Maya over a web interface. (See Autodesk Labs) Couple Fast, highly accurate, push button rendering with Software as a Service via a web interface, and you've just made rendering a hell of a lot more accessible. There are already companies underway that are working on the technology to make SaaS rendering a reality. While I've never been overly interested in the whole "push button" rendering phenomenon/argument, that's been primarily because there had not been a technology that has allowed or even suggested that would happen any time soon. I think what we are seeing with iray and reality server, V-Ray RT etc is a complete paradigm shift in our industry. I would be paying VERY close attention to these developments as I can guarantee you they WILL change how our industry works. If you think the lack of diversification of most companies has impacted our industry due to the economy, I think these developments stand to create a far greater impact. Don't dismiss this development, as we're about to see some really big changes in how rendering and visualizations are created. Edited November 18, 2009 by Jeff Mottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I have been waiting almost 14 years for technology to catch up with the artist desires to create without having to be a geek to get the tools to work. Now that it is finally starting to happen I cant wait. Now I will be able get on with what I really want to do, create images. The frustrations of waiting for a render to see if this setting works is what has held our indusrty back for too long. Will this change how we work, Of cause. Will this change or industry, certainly will. Will we be out of a job, Heck no, if anything it will free use to push ourselves that much further artistically than ever before. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Mottle Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Will we be out of a job, Heck no, if anything it will free use to push ourselves that much further artistically than ever before. Precisely and it will open the door for new business opportunities and uses for high end visualization that in the past would have been prohibitively expensive. For better or worse, this is also going to lend itself to many more design iterations in the same timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 which will make the architect designing over our shoulders much happier. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abowen Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 the most prevalent question to me (you guys may or may not agree) is ... At what point does an architecture firm bring this service inhouse ??? firms will consider this a feasible solution as hardware AND ease of production become more accessible (cost AND time wise). these technologies are bringing us there. Quickly! this may be a generalization(flame suite on) .... but .... although i agree that there is a high level of artistry needed in our profession . i do believe most clients see us as a commodity /service , not as artist .... or atleast not as artist first. maybe somewhere along the lines of a distant cousin to CAD. LOL This thinking is the largest hurdle to overcome in this new paradigm . Andre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odouble Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It is true that there is a disconnect between the way most Architects view visualization vs how VIZ people view it. The new technologies will definitely allow for Architects to dabble into more complex inhouse VIZ. This will no doubt work for simple stills and the simple beloved "flythroughs". New technology will not replace the need for the creative minds that produce highend animations and presentations. I doubt the majority of Architecture firms have these guys just laying around, even the largest ones. Architects will still need to hire professionals to create highend VIZ even with the new technology at their finger tips. Don't forget that as the Architects get to see and use the new technology, VIZ houses and professionals will be in even better positions to produce creative work. Maybe even exponentially so... Architects would still not have time to storyboard, render, composite, paint, edit... etc like a true VIZ studio will. There will be standard cookie cutter images like we have seen with every rendering advance (physical sun and sky comes to mind) and then everyone would want something better than the standard images albeit better than previous technology. New technologies will call everyone higher. They might shift the percentage of work done in house but will never replace the need for outside creative professional VIZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hunt Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 In-house is primarily a design development tool where the pretty pictures are a by-product. Studios primary focus is the pretty picture and design development is a pain in the rear. In-house the pretty pictures account for 5% of the whole process, the rest is taken up with DD. What this technology will do is shift the production time (time to get shaders, lighting etc right) into the DD phase. Thus the 5% will be used to polish the pretty pictures. Studios spend alot of time tweaking every fine detail. This technology will speed up and make that process more fluid. Leaving more time to produce more images. jhv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobling Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 This one goes to justin, i fully agree with you, i fell the same way, we are artists which have to wait that their brush paints...for years now, i am not really afraid that industry will change dramatically, that what we are really paid for is creativity, meterials, choosing light etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 worst case scenario I will open that promised donut shop and you're all invited. first one is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahorela Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I guess that as lighting/texture work becomes more automated we will find ourselves focusing more efforts elsewhere, things like camera matching and green screening come to mind. Animation effects with software like Realflow etc. It may turn out that we will be working longer and harder than ever before to create a product that warrants the expenditure over the much improved "architect" render (hope your vision of the future is correct over mine Justin). It is a bit of a kick in the teeth though, most of us have spent a good part of the last 5-10 years learning how to light/texture a scene and then some prat makes a magic button. Oh and Ihabkal, I'm drawing up plans for a roller disco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihabkal Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I guess by then Realflow will be integrated into max, or a similar system. then fluid dynamics. I guess our efforts will be on adding much more detail like every screw of every trashcan, condensation drops on windows, small cracks in the pavement, you know.... But seriously, hundreds of million polygon trees. 3d people that look like humans. fully detailed cars that have drivers in them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobling Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 We should be happy than beeing afraid, maybe everything is simpler technically, but is it really to expect that architects make their images or animations on their own, over last ten years i always experienced that the crativity in terms of making a good photo was the core of what i had been paid. Architects all think they can make photos, but they pay a lot of money to architectural photographers...that will be the same with us, the core is to make the architecture pretty, mostly in competitions..and the hardest thing ist to make the most simple shoe boxes become like supermodels, they know that they need us. I am looking forward, work becoming simpler, faster and better, we can unveil our creativity now, rather than tweaking, testing, waiting, max crashing, rendering again, etc etc., but you are right i am a bit sad of the years spent for nothing, fg tweaking in mr, vray testing testing etc. at the end, as always, i think that iray thing will need some years untill it becomes really effective affordable and usable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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