Interactive Environments?

[troymcclure]

Hello CGArchitect Community,

 

Just have a few questions for you guys...

 

Do you think there is any value to an architect to have a 3d interactive environment that they can navigate/run thru? I am considering starting up a company utilizing current gaming technology (Unreal) and am curious if there is a market for this.

 

would this only be valuable to an architect, or could this maybe apply to the work that a contractor does, or anything else along the line of creating a building from concept to completion?

 

I figure this is the next logical step from 3d still render > to > 3d animated fly thru > to > 3d Interactive environment.

 

 

Thoughts, or suggestions?

 

 

Thanks for your time!

Edited December 7, 2009 by troymcclure
addin' stuff

[Devin Johnston]

Maybe but you need to provide more info on exactley what your talking about.

[braddewald]

I myself have thought about this before and abandoned the idea when trying to think about the delivery method for the service and providing the software necessary to read the files that would be created. Have you successfully exported your 3d scenes to the unreal engine (unrealED?)

[troymcclure]

Well with the UDK (unreal development kit) that was recently released, you can make standalone .exe's.

 

For example, you could model/texture/rig/animatate the interior and exterior of a mall, complete with working fountains, escalators, elevators, cars, everything etc. in 3dsmax or maya and export them to the UDK.

 

Then using the tools provided, you can create a full virtual environment emulating the end product. You can walk around and get a real sense of the space.

 

Then you can package the entire "game" environment into a standalone application that only requires the appropriate computer hardware to run, ( a decent standalone gfx card and 1-2 gb ram).

 

Would this immersive and interactive environment be of value to an architect, more so than just a static render or a predefined flythru animation?

[Devin Johnston]

It's going to depend on what your doing with it, but I don't see it replacing renderings/animations at least until the quality of the game engine is equal to what can be produced in these traditional medias. I see it more as a supplement than anything else but you really need to ask who's going to be the end user. Architects probably won't find it very useful because if they are working in BIM they can already navigate a 3D model of their building to experience the space. A developer might find it useful when trying to presell units or when looking to drum up interest in a new project but he would need to be able to send the file to whomever he wants and large file sizes would be a disadvantage. I aslo think that just being able to walk around inside and outside of your building could become boring pretty quickly, some thought would need to be given about how you could make the experience enjoyable.

[AndyC]

I actually did this about 6 years ago. We used an engine that was written by one of the project gotham guys. It wasn't super hot but it did the job well and the transition from max to the native environment worked very well. We even used games designers to help us understand LOD's. Looking back I have many thoughts, my first is, if you are going to use it for visualizing only, dont do it. Its still fairly crude, very expensive and allows freedom where you may not want it. My second thought is what stood out as awesomeness. If the environment is interactive, can do cost calcs and can show advertisement opportunity by cost and effect and perhaps even interactive urban planning then you have a VERY valuable tool. Oddly much of this tech does exist, but to my knowledge it hasn't been put together that well. Too many people focusing on pretty stuff without thinking about the value of strategy.

[troymcclure]

Guys, thanks a bunch for the honest feedback. I do not have a lot of experience on the architecture side of the fence when it comes to visualization, but I am quite familiar with the game technologies that could be used.

 

Really utilizing interactivity is the direction I would like to go with using Unreal.

 

If you would be so kind as to elaborate a bit on the "can do cost calcs" and "interactive urban planning" parts of the last post that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Do you mean if you were to walk up to a feature on a building, have it display the cost of that particular part?

 

Sorry in advance for the lack of knowledge in this area..

[Simon Moir]

HKS used Unreal for a few things, I remember a Stadium. There is (was?) a company using the Crytek engine. I downloaded the Unreal Ed, it annoyed me that the demo scenes looked so good without rendering time! There's definitely potential, though I suspect it would prove quite difficult to pursue profitably. How much would it cost to license for an architectural project do you think?

[BVI]

From: http://www.udk.com/licensing.html

 

If you are creating a game or commercial application using UDK for sale or distribution to an end-user or client, or if you are providing services in connection with a game or application, the per-seat option does not apply. Instead the license terms for this arrangement are US $99 (Ninety Nine US Dollars) up-front, and a 0% royalty on you or your company's first $5,000 (US) in UDK related revenue, and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue above $5,000 (US). UDK related revenue includes, but is not limited to, monies earned from: sales, services, training, advertisements, sponsorships, endorsements, memberships, subscription fees, rentals and pay-to-play.

Here are some examples:

· A warehouse company uses UDK to create an application for employee safety training. They develop it on one computer and then install the resulting application on two computers for their internal employees to use. They require a single UDK development seat license for a total cost of $2,500 per year, for as long as they use UDK to develop and/or maintain the application.

· That same warehouse company decides to use the safety training application to sell safety training services to third parties. They earn $15,000 in the first calendar quarter for safety training services. They would pay a seat license for the internal use, US $99.00 for the royalty license and the 25% royalty on the training services revenue over $5,000. They would be required to pay $2,599 to Epic and the 25% royalty on subsequent revenue.

· A team creates a game with UDK that they intend to sell. After six months of development, they release the game through digital distribution and they earn €15,000 in the first calendar quarter after release. Their use of UDK during development requires no fee. Upon release they would pay US $99.99 for a Royalty Bearing license. After earning €15,000, they would be required to pay Epic €2,500 (€0 on the first €5,000 in revenue, and €2,500 on the next €10,000 in revenue). On subsequent revenue, they are required to pay the 25% royalty.

· An architecture firm uses UDK to create a live walk-through presentation for their customers. They charge their customers a fee of $500 for each walk-through. Before they begin to charge customers for the walk through, they would pay Epic US $99.99 for a Royalty Bearing license. they sell walk throughs to 10 customers in the first quarter, bringing in $5,000 in revenue to charge customers No payment would be required to Epic for that first $5,000. In the second quarter, they sell another 10 walk-though presentations, bringing in another $5,000 in revenue. They are required to pay $1,250 to Epic. On subsequent revenue, they are required to pay the 25% royalty.

The UDK Commercial Use License may be executed by an individual or a corporate entity. If an unincorporated team wishes to license UDK, we recommend setting up a simple corporation or partnership for the team before contacting us for a license. If that is not feasible, please designate a single individual to contact us who will be responsible for executing the license and fulfilling the terms.

[troymcclure]

yes, i have read the licensing terms already, but thanks :/ I am unsure what the intended purpose of that post was.

[AndyC]

Guys, thanks a bunch for the honest feedback. I do not have a lot of experience on the architecture side of the fence when it comes to visualization, but I am quite familiar with the game technologies that could be used.

 

Really utilizing interactivity is the direction I would like to go with using Unreal.

 

If you would be so kind as to elaborate a bit on the "can do cost calcs" and "interactive urban planning" parts of the last post that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Do you mean if you were to walk up to a feature on a building, have it display the cost of that particular part?

 

Sorry in advance for the lack of knowledge in this area..

 

Hi again,

 

Take a look at firms such as Space Syntax and it will give you an idea. Imagine Syms but in the real world. The conversations I was having years ago were with developers, leasing agents, urban planners, architects, user exp and Nottingham university. There was an idea that we would make a product that you could plug and play with buildings, elements, greenways etc and immediately see value change in an assumed cost per sq foot. Now imagine a billboard and the cost of putting your ad on there, you could see it up front and choose that one or walk around a site and coose another, see the cost, even reserve it. Then you could walk up to a building, see cost per sq/ft, but at this point you could request alterations to shell architecture, even how many floors on some occasions. Finally the much longer goal was to be able to show this experience to consumers, users, a particular demographic or people in the community and be able to asses their reaction, facial and neural in order to understand emotional reponse to environmental changes. It essentially gave an investor real evidence of value associated with changes.

[BVI]

yes, i have read the licensing terms already, but thanks :/ I am unsure what the intended purpose of that post was.

 

A reply to Simon's question...

[Shaun Hamm]

I've started to see some viz companies using Quest 3D and Unity 3D.

 

There is now a free version of unity 3D to try it out. You would need the pro version though for commercial usage.

[assifv]

Interesting discussion. I think interactive game environments are the next step in architecture visualization. Maxer has a good point about making the game experience enjoyable.

 

Take for example the work of the Dutch architects Maurer United Architects. They made a few game levels from their own unfinished projects.

 

www dot maurerunited dot com (under 'play' you can find the projects described below)

 

For example the game 'Ceci n'est pas une game' (It's not a game) in which you can walk with a game avatar (a pipe) through the work of Rene Magritte.

 

Or the Zedzbeton game, in which you can walk through a pavillion designed by a graffiti artist. An older version of the Unreal engine was used for these projects.