Sketchup The Curse

[ihabkal]

So I get these sketchup models from clients, they say make an animation out of them, after I am done and I send previews they ask me to embellish the spaces adding design elements.

What I am seeing is a bunch if ignorants who can't model a cube who download or buy a cheap piece of software and they call themselves modelers, and it is blocking their braincells because now they can't design they lost the flexibility of sketching and of building physical models, all they can do is model a rectangle, stasnd it up and look at it for hours and say :"WOW we are great, really really great!"

[Tommy Burns]

All I can say is lesson learned Ihab. I wouldn't accept a sketchup file for a still never mind an animation?? For an animation you really would be better model the whole thing again!!

[Kyle]

I work for a company where all the designers use sketchup and they think they are all great and fantastic modellers, they are even starting to render in it using VRay and ask the question why is 3DS Max so expensive? And what can it do that SketchUp can't?? Now they are trying to convert SketchUp into BIM by using plugins!!!

So I know how you feel it's nice to know somone out there is as frustrated as me:rolleyes: I fully understand and appreciate the 'SketchUp Curse'

[Claudio Branch]

The problem is not with SketchUp...the model is only as good as the modeler. I recently finished an animation with models straight out of SU without any problems. These were not just simple massing-models either!

 

I sat down with the modeler and we discussed how the modeling should procede to eliminate the inherent problems.

 

Good communication will set you free...

[ihabkal]

The problem is not with SketchUp...the model is only as good as the modeler.

 

Exactly, but people are using sketchup for a few minutes and now they think they are Davinci, plus the worst part is they forget to design their spaces because they're so taken by the box they modeled.

 

Good communication will set you free...

 

I agree completely. That is the main problem I guess. the lack of. If they told me start from scratch design eveything I would be done by now. but they said do that. they didn't want that in the first place.

[Kyle]

The problem is not with SketchUp...the model is only as good as the modeler.

Good communication will set you free...

 

Agreed but I also feel that SketchUp has limits and should not be considered on Par with 3DS Max or Revit. Horses for courses I think and it should not be used for something it is not....ie BIM.

It can be useful for quickly blocking out designs and sketching out ideas, but not detailed modelling.

[Jonathan Sanchez]

Agreed but I also feel that SketchUp has limits and should not be considered on Par with 3DS Max or Revit. Horses for courses I think and it should not be used for something it is not....ie BIM.

It can be useful for quickly blocking out designs and sketching out ideas, but not detailed modelling.

 

I agree.. it depends on the use it's given. I've been benefiting alot from using sketchup lately to model the exteriors of homes and I can do them so much faster in sketchup than in 3ds. I've even modeled fairly complex buildings with round and curved surfaces...I think for this sketchup is a "blessing". However I agree that to compare it to 3ds is to compare pherhaps microsoft paint to photoshop. You are much better off modelling intricate surfaces in max then in sketchup.

[Claudio Branch]

I totally understand the frustration of dealing with a poorly thought out asset! I am very fortunate to get to work with a highly skilled SU modeler who listens to what I need.

 

I have never touched SU. My 3d modeling experience is entirely from AutoCAD and Max. However, I could not begin to touch the speed and accuracy at which this guy models with SU.

 

For master planning projects, we start with a layout done in AutoCAD, import it into SU, do the modeling and save it out as a Max 2010 file. In Max, I use a master scene file with x-refs for each campus phase, the trees, and the cars. It is fast and clean due to alot of planning up front.

[angelo]

You know, I curse every time I get stuck with a crappy SketchUp model that "just needs a little updating", but then I think back to times when senior level designers couldn't do anything on the computer, and if they did, it was in ACAD! The fact that they are "modeling" in 3D is a big step forward.

 

I'd much rather import the model into Revit for 3D tracing or into MAX (pretty good importer with the extension) and work with it than go back to the dark ages of 2D ACAD or fudged hand sketches.

 

The design of our buildings improves dramatically when they are thought-through in 3D. If we ultimately have to throw out the SketchUp model, so be it, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

Until Autodesk get's its act together and makes a front end modeler that is as easy to use as SketchUp, we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future.

[BVI]

We work with clients SU models daily - you have to see it as another source material, rather than a completed model that you can pop in and render. It requires a day or two of clean up and optimisation.

 

Much prefer getting a SU model where they have thought about the design in model space, rather than getting the "oh, thats what it looks like" CAD speak.

[francosd]

same here

[BrianKitts]

Love it Love it Love it. Our designers who use sketchup well save me SOOOO much time during the design development phase of projects. Our typical work flow starts out with a lot of hand sketching or sketchup work (based on the designer) before it moves into either archicad or revit (based on the client)

 

Until I build a working relationship with someone and know they can pass me quality models, I approach a project assuming they are going to give me total crap out of sketchup. We work together I help to correct their bad modeling processes and down the road they make it into the group that ease my workload. I would handle out of house clients exactly the same way.

 

I have one designer who's just as fast modeling in sketchup as I am in max. Now there's some objects he can't build just because sketchup doesn't have the tools for it, but when you compare apples to apples, it just proves the fact that you should work with what you know best.

 

I'm actually working on learning sketchup now myself because for a lot of the early diagrammatic work that we do..... sketchup excels when you are doing a lot of transparency and stylistic diagrams.

Edited January 21, 2010 by BrianKitts

[hockley91]

I am very frustrated with Sketchup. I do not even bother with it, but I do see why people are drawn to it. It does what it's meant to do, but no one really cares about how it get's transferred because the ones that use it are quite happy with what they have up to that point.

 

I work in a growing office and almost everyone here has learned sketchup. They all jumped on the bandwagon. So, all the models I get are in sketchup and I'm the only one that uses 3DS Max and Vray and produce these nice high res images for the projects.

 

I don't blame them for learning Sketchup and I'm trying to figure out a better way to get the files from them. None of them really model in Autocad and 3DS Max, so when I need their help I have to resort to their skills.

 

I think I need to get into sketchup and figure out how it works with the layers and such and find a good way to get more control over what I can get. The previous poster mentioned that they sat down with the Sketchup users, so that's something I think I have to do, because I just tell them to go for it and then once I get the model I can see my nightmare starting with the textures and separating the geometries for retexturing, etc.

 

We're all going full Revit by this summer so we'll all be in the same boat. I've already been working with Revit so I'm happier with that pipeline, even though it's not a smooth ride either, but it's more manageable than Sketchup....for me at least.

[BrianKitts]

We're all going full Revit by this summer so we'll all be in the same boat. I've already been working with Revit so I'm happier with that pipeline, even though it's not a smooth ride either, but it's more manageable than Sketchup....for me at least.

 

I would not view Revit as a replacement to those using sketchup. It's not an ideal platform for an iterative design process. That and it's quite difficult to make certain objects in revit that can be banged out in seconds with sketchup. Its much easier for the designers to solidify a design in sketchup before sending it out the revit users to try and figure out how the hell to build it in revit. I'm sure as revit evolves this will change but as for all BIM platforms right now complex objects are a nightmare. If you resolved to designing with Revit you would cripple the design process based on the tools you have at your disposal...... which means Sketchup's probably here to stay for quite some time.

 

(and yes I did originally sit down with the sketchup users to organize how layers, materials, the attention of object facing is handled. That's all been distilled down now into a couple pdf guides for sketchup users. Add in maxs ability to directly import sketchup files now, and the process is getting pretty painless..... not totally..... but a lot better than it ever was)

[creasia]

I agree that it is not the tool, it is the modeller. I model most of my work in Sketchup and prefer it over Autocad. I am frustrated by Studio Max ease of use in precision modeling.

 

Not to mention that hidden in the square built models on the Google Warehouse there are free accessories and autos that rival anything you can find on Turbosquid.

 

The following scene was rendered directly out of Sketchup with the Maxwell plugin.

 

[Kyle]

Its much easier for the designers to solidify a design in sketchup before sending it out

 

Agreed....but even then I think designers should actually sketch it out first because even sketchup can restrict some designers creative process by not knowing how to use the tools.

Then take into max as said previosuly to refine for high end visuals. I am sorry but I do not see SketchUp as a replacement for this. Diagramatic visuals maybe but not photorealistic.

Our process is to use AutoCad in conjunction with SketchUp and then take the files into max for rendering

[hockley91]

Maybe I should clarify my Revit comment a bit more.

 

We're all going to be using Revit for all our projects. So, those that have been using Sketchup won't really be using it anymore since we're all going to be starting up new projects straight from Revit...from the beginning.

 

Anyway, that's the plan. I'm still going to be using 3DS Max as our primary tool for renderings and animations.

 

We've been slowly integrating Revit, so almost all of our projects have been primarily in AutoCAD still. So, that's why they have been using sketchup to quickly model. Before I was hired they used sketchup a lot for their presentations, but since I've been hired they have been quite excited with the forward push in visualization with 3DS Max.

 

I've already worked with a few projects that have been created in Revit from scratch. I've had an easier time importing from there...almost. The models still lack the detail needed for a great rendering, so I still go in there and add more after I get the Revit model.

[ihabkal]

 

Not to mention that hidden in the square built models on the Google Warehouse there are free accessories and autos that rival anything you can find on Turbosquid.

 

 

 

About the 3D Google Sketchup warehouse, anyone reading this who submitted models to it I thank you, I have downloaded a few models and converted them to max, it is such a nice idea to post free models for a change.

[Frosty]

The following scene was rendered directly out of Sketchup with the Maxwell plugin.

[/img]

 

Without attempting to be rude or condescending, I think most people would view this as a typical SketchityUp model and a prime example of how poor most models/images are that come out of it.

 

In my mind, SketchityUp's ease of use is its blessing and its curse. It allows everyone access to 3D software without proper understanding of how to actually accomplish a well built model. On top that, its craptacular ability to not work basically any other software is rediculous. I agree that every software has its place and SketchityUp is a great app for many architects to get their feet wet and do some conceptual modeling. I just happen to think that's the end of the road in the production pipeline. Great for conceptual design and that's it.

 

To those that think Revit is the silver bullet, think again. The 3D massing tools are terrible. I find it difficult to believe that Revit will fit easily into any architects initial design steps - unless they are doing big boxes and strip malls. Its work flow is too rigid and requires too many designs decisions too early. Its the future for production, but poor for conceptual design.

 

Every app has its strengths and weaknesses and none are perfect. I was involved in two major design competitions last year. In one, our partner firm insisted that the design be developed in Revit. After one week (3 week competition) they admitted defeat and my colleague modeled and rendered it in SketchUp Max. It was far too complex to do quickly in Revit. During a second competition, we used AutoCad, FormZ, Rhino and 3D max COMBINED to model several components that were impossible with any individual tool at our disposal.

[aaronrumple]

I would not view Revit as a replacement to those using sketchup. It's not an ideal platform for an iterative design process. That and it's quite difficult to make certain objects in revit that can be banged out in seconds with sketchup.

 

What? Revit is perfect for iterative design. Complex objects? No big deal. I do Revit > 3dS day in and day out. I've tried SketchUp but it can't deal with 2000 highly detail slots machine and 300 lights. Straight lines suck. Parametrics and Design Options rock.

 

SketchUp is a dead-end document. You toss it at CD's We have Revit designs going right into CD. Plus we have continued iterative design right as were doing CD's. We have production draftsmen spitting design changes back to be rendered for the client.

 

It is all I've used for schematics since Revit 4.5...

Edited January 21, 2010 by aaronrumple

[creasia]

I love what I see coming out of Revit. It seems very powerful and I would love to have someone pay me to learn it someday.

 

Sketchup does have some limitations, but for simpler scenes I love it's usability.

[ihabkal]

it helps if your wife is an architect. I told her to learn Revit and then to teach me as I don't have the time to learn it myself. SHe loved it but since then got busy with the kids...

[notamondayfan]

This whole "Sketchup Curse" is beyond me really.

 

Yes we get dodgy models, with poor geometry, and unworkable scenes, but that's where we as professional visualisers earn a living.

 

If we get a crap Sketchup model, we remodel it, simple. Often in the long run, it will save us time and erase any future problems, plus Im also confident that that everything has been modelled correctly, and it makes future changes, and materialing, dead easy!

 

You could say there's a "CAD Curse" too, how often have we had elevations that dont line up? But would we model one face longer than another simply because the CAD wasn't as accurate as we would have liked?

 

And if it bothers you that much, don't work with that client, and if it's an internal problem, talk and work things out with your collegues, I'm sure your bosses would rather you steamline your workflow, rather than ranting!

 

 

Sorry if I've ranted too much myself!! Dean

[bytor]

While I often identify with Sketchup being a curse like the original poster, the reason is typically because it is in the wrong hands where I work. I have worked with many talented people, and also others. Sketchup is another tool that in the wrong hands becomes a problem. Due to it's ease of use, every person in the office now think's they are capable modelers and some even think they can render.

 

If you want to see what the application is actually capable of - look at the works you can find here;

 

http://twilightrender.com/

 

http://software.asgvis.com/

 

http://www.sketchupartists.org/

 

It is NOT just a sketchity schematic tool, though it excels at that as well.

 

Another Dean