what's merits the 10k render?

[alias_marks]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen. So I've been wondering lately, what's in the 10k render? I've heard whispers here an there (*mostly just by browsing threads on various forums) that something like the quality of one of the top renderings from dbox, spine, neoscape, MIR, etc, or similar can run upwards of 10k. perhaps this doesn't exist anymore after the past 2 years of 'value engineering' in the cg arch viz world....maybe it does but none the less, I am curious as to what some may postulate would constitute charging this much for a render.

 

maybe something like Libeskind, Zaha, or the like would commission to do..... say... the ground zero project renderings by dbox.... or something of the sort...

 

Here are some thoughts I had that would take the cost above and beyond a typical, 'model this from autocad or import from revit and sketchup' request:

 

3-5k for professional architectural photography to montage render into

 

4-5k for helicopter session for aerial shot? never bid a helicopter shot before... so just shooting in the dark here.

 

1k to set up a full accurate HDR lighting scheme and capture relevant information to show accurate reflections.

 

2-3k for extra modeling for all specific unique interiors for high rise building... basically modeling work for 15+ interior shots + the exterior + site modeling? I feel like a lot of Herzong's rendering might require this.

 

2-3k for custom design work in addition to the render... basically the developer comes to you and doesn't have a design on board yet but would like to get some visual tools for their financing meetings, so the visualizer is left to spend a lot of time on the design?

 

2k for custom landscape and plant development/modeling with landscape architects?

 

5k for complete custom furniture scheme for interior design?

 

Attached are some of my best guesses at what a 10k render might look like as examples of some of these attributes... curious to hear any others thoughts or from any one whose experienced working on a render with this budget.. I think it would be most valuable to the community... maybe I'm off my rocker that people charge this much for a single still... but thought it might be interesting to discuss.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited January 30, 2010 by alias_marks

[alias_marks]

and one more of an interior that might be upwards of 10k if ya had to do all the furniture modeling.

[kippu]

how about that render for the dubai WORLD project

[Jeff Mottle]

I think the days of 10K renderings are behind us now and very few people even then could charge that. Aside from the added costs of custom greenscreen shots or heli shot background plates, the only reason most of the companies could charge that much was simply based on reputation and marketing. While their overheads in some cases were higher due to the spaces thy were in and the number of staff, for the most part those companies do not pay their employees considerably more than anywhere else. Point being I don't think you can really do a breakdown like you are trying as the bulk of that cost is a "premium" rather than a reflection of overhead costs.

[ihabkal]

I think the days of 10K renderings are behind us now and very few people even then could charge that. Aside from the added costs of custom greenscreen shots or heli shot background plates, the only reason most of the companies could charge that much was simply based on reputation and marketing. While their overheads in some cases were higher due to the spaces thy were in and the number of staff, for the most part those companies do not pay their employees considerably more than anywhere else. Point being I don't think you can really do a breakdown like you are trying as the bulk of that cost is a "premium" rather than a reflection of overhead costs.

 

Jeff is right on the 10K, ahem on the money.

especially on staff pay.

in 2001 I was employed in the US, we did 3 images for 35K, I did all the modeling and render of the buildings, colleagues did the landscaping! my yearly salary was 35K then.

Let me tell you something: Zaha doesn't pay that much for renderings, I chatted with ex-employees of her and their work environment is sterile and she drives them mad. Major architects don't pay 10K, developers have the money. you want the big bucks hunt for a developer. There are still 10K+ projects getting commissioned: sometimes I get hired to model context buildings that surround the main building for 1K, so my guess is they should be getting 10 times that much to warrant that. Or they could only be in love with me

sadly no such thing in the business world.

[ihabkal]

how about that render for the dubai WORLD project

 

hundreds of architects made millions of dollars off Dubai......now these projects they designed including Dubai World are in the mud...literally for Dubai World...

Good thing my main source of income wasn't from the boom, but from old contacts that matured with me.

[Tommy L]

The money is in repeat work, not the 10k money shot.

[Gus_Rayvus]

I think Jeff is completely correct. When and if people pay that for a rendering, they are not paying that for a break down of costs, they are paying that because they know the end product will be excellent and delivered on time. It is peace of mind money. Most companies or individuals make a couple of good renderings (stuff they showcase on their website), the people who can charge in that direction, always make great renderings.

[Noise]

A dog can smell fear.

 

If you smell desperation - double your prices.

 

You just have to ask the right questions.

[Noise]

Just as a side note.

 

I did a $10k (well in excess of that) per image project 3 years ago and have not been the same since. There is a ceiling to what we can charge before we become dribbling messes.

[ihabkal]

A dog can smell fear.

 

If you smell desperation - double your prices.

 

You just have to ask the right questions.

 

yeah but not all of us has that gift. It is hard for most I think to see what the client's poker face is hiding. Especially that many artists have "conditions" that prevents them from reading faces correctly. (like a wide variety of Autism spectrums)

[Noise]

Its the same process for every quotation that we do whether the project is big or small, we have to understand the clients requirements before providing them with a quote.

 

They might be prepared to pay alot or very little so, we have to see how that fits with our skills, time frame, current work and the clients expectations. The only thing that we have on our side to assess this, is our experience in asking the right questions.

 

The questions for this are quite simple;

 

Q. What is the deadline ?

 

A. 2 weeks

 

Q. To complete that work in 2 weeks is very tight, can you extend it to 4 weeks?

 

A. Our planning submission/marketing presentation is in two weeks and cannot be changed.

 

Q. We can complete that in two weeks but will have to apply additional resources to achieve a successful outcome. That will require a fee in excess of our normal rates, is that acceptable?

 

A. We will look at the quote when you send it through.

 

When I say - double your prices if you smell desperation, this is mainly because you will invariably have to deal with a very tight time frame so, you will need to draw upon extra resources BUT, you will also have to complete the project on time and to a world class level. My experience of these projects is that they definitely take their share of flesh.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

If you want to think about a 10k rendering in a slightly different way, try working backwards.

 

A 10k rendering would mean that you have 66 to 110 hours to complete it. This number is subject to the market you are located in, how skilled the people working on it are, and whether or not you outsource part of it. I came up with the 66 to 110 by taking the billable rate of the people working on it, and dividing it by 10,000.

 

If you had 66-110 hours on an image, what could you do? All of the images you posted should be able to be completed in that amount of time. A few of them should be easily created within the 66 hours.

 

The only ones that are questionable are the aerials showing cities. What portion is modeled, and how accurate is the modeling?

 

Also, the image showing the classic furniture. The pieces of furniture could be quite time consuming to construct, but more than likely they were not custom pieces created for that image. But even if they were, I wouldn't consider that a 10k image. I mean their are only 2 difficult pieces to model in that image, and those are the couch, and the chair. Everything else would be pretty straight forward.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Q. What is the deadline ?

 

A. 2 weeks

 

Q. To complete that work in 2 weeks is very tight, can you extend it to 4 weeks?

 

In architectural design, two weeks can be a long time. Especially early in the design process, where the design is very likely to change daily up until a couple of days before the submittable. Competitions are often started 4 weeks before the submission. It more or less takes the first 2 for the team to come to a conclusion on what the design will be.

 

Typically only renderings done after the design is complete or nearly complete can you confidentially give the visualizations 4 weeks to be completed.

[ihabkal]

In architectural design, two weeks can be a long time. Especially early in the design process, where the design is very likely to change daily up until a couple of days before the submittable. Competitions are often started 4 weeks before the submission. It more or less takes the first 2 for the team to come to a conclusion on what the design will be.

 

Typically only renderings done after the design is complete or nearly complete can you confidentially give the visualizations 4 weeks to be completed.

 

I was gonna say....

In Lebanon, I am afraid to say 1 week to a client he will walk away in a minute, even though I prefer to kick them out and work with Americans who actually have better treatment for us as human beings, the recession forced me to deal with local clients.

Client here ride us, they want to see daily updates every day, and they want to make daily changes, and they want the project delivered tomorrow, not in two weeks...

And they pay in pennies.

[Noise]

The time frames are examples - it might be 4 weeks for 10 images for example.

 

With regard to the design process - we only accept a frozen design or completed drawings.