First try, many problems

[Aqualung]

Hi all!

I just started learning Max and architectural visualization couple of weeks ago and have many many problems and questions.

 

For example this building I'm working on, at this stage it is not even 50% ready and already has about 6 million polygons, is that normal or I am doing something very wrong?

 

I am also intend to purchase "3ds Max 2009 Architectural Visualization Intermediate to Advanced" book, and was wondering if it's worth it?

 

Thanks!

[maciejwypych]

In terms of polygon count, before you start modeling you need to decide what level of detail you will need? Is there going to be only outside shots? closeups?

Also if you create any basic objects(boxes, etc...) then keep the subdivison to a minimum, unless you're going to edit & add smaller details.

 

Sometimes 6 milion polygons is too much and sometimes is not enough...

 

What I'm saying is that if you'll keep you cameras as they are, you don't have to model bolts holding the steel together, because you just won't see them.

 

If your scene will have far & close, outside & inside shots, then separate the elements into layers/components or xrefs and turn them on/off if needed.

 

Try to google tutorials before you spend your money on the book.

 

Hope that helps

[JonRashid]

Look for repetition. On a model Like that I would create master floors of the unique levels. Then every copy of that would be an instance. Often you will find you only have to model 3-4 unique floors.

[Aqualung]

Thanks guys!

 

My main task right now to learn a proper workflow, where to start with the building project, how to make doors, windows, glass, floors properly. I read a lot but there aren't many tutorials on this subjects I've found. That's why i was asking about that book. So far for me it's all trial and error. So what I am saying is I would like learn a proper approach and technics in first place.

Any suggestions will be very appreciated.

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Typically my models are 70-80% built by the time they come to our department. But, if I were building a skyscraper from scratch, as you are, ...I might start by building a rough massing model, and begin setting views. The sooner you get those views set, the better off you will be.

 

This way you know what level of detail you need, and how far you will be viewing the building from.

 

Then you can set basic lighting, while you begin crafting the structure.

 

Knowing the distance, and how the lighting is going to work will allow you to tailor the textures and materials to get the most bang for your buck out of them.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Crazy Homeless Guy

[Aqualung]

The sooner you get those views set, the better off you will be.

 

Hey Travis, can you elaborate more on this, i don't think I completely understand. Do you mean my camera views?

[Crazy Homeless Guy]

Hey Travis, can you elaborate more on this, i don't think I completely understand. Do you mean my camera views?

 

Yes. If the model you are building is going to be used strictly for visualization purposes, then setting your camera(s) as early as possible will allow you to focus your efforts and create a superior composition for the shot.

 

Building the complete model, and then picking the shot is not as efficient.

[Jane Namenye]

Hello Alex

 

What Travis said makes a lot of sense and I would do what he says too.

 

Aside from that, I would be curious where all the polys are coming from. Do you have a lot of objects in the scene, or are your objects made with a lot of geometry (which could be reduced)?

 

As for making doors, windows & glass, there are many ways to do each of these. You said you're learning 3ds max. Do you have a good grounding in the basics of modeling, materials and lighting (from max or another program) or are you learning these at the same time you are learning the architectural aspects of 3D? (Knowing where you are starting from will help me give you better suggestions.)

[Justin Hunt]

can you post a close up wire frame, Whilst detailed I cant see where the 6 million pollies are. Typically that type of building would be around 100 000 to 400 000. Anything higher is time to start looking at reducing detail like cylinder having 8 sides instead of 24. Using 4 sides for handrails etc. Only turbo smoothing things that absolutely need it.

 

And of cause the golden rule, If you dont see it dont model it.

 

jhv

[Aqualung]

Hello Alex

 

What Travis said makes a lot of sense and I would do what he says too.

 

Aside from that, I would be curious where all the polys are coming from. Do you have a lot of objects in the scene, or are your objects made with a lot of geometry (which could be reduced)?

 

As for making doors, windows & glass, there are many ways to do each of these. You said you're learning 3ds max. Do you have a good grounding in the basics of modeling, materials and lighting (from max or another program) or are you learning these at the same time you are learning the architectural aspects of 3D? (Knowing where you are starting from will help me give you better suggestions.)

 

Hey Jane, I started learning 3ds Max along with architectural aspects of 3d roughly the same time. I can get around basic modeling little better now but my texturing and lighting knowledge is very limited.

I come from very strong 2d design background so I have general understanding how things should work.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Aqualung]

can you post a close up wire frame, Whilst detailed I cant see where the 6 million pollies are. Typically that type of building would be around 100 000 to 400 000. Anything higher is time to start looking at reducing detail like cylinder having 8 sides instead of 24. Using 4 sides for handrails etc. Only turbo smoothing things that absolutely need it.

 

And of cause the golden rule, If you dont see it dont model it.

 

jhv

 

Hey Justin, you are right, I think i have way too much detail on those railings (see attached image). I was thinking about doing close up rendering of one of the balconies so I made them high poly.

[Stan Zaslavsky]

Hi Alex,

 

i would strongly recommend getting the particular book you are talking about - at the same time in the book, it talks about a certain workflow that works for 3DATS guys. You may decide that this workflow does or doesnt work for you - and that will come with practice.

 

At the same time - i think its a great place to start and it seems you are already fairly experienced with Max to be able to generate a model like you have - so the book will only increase your knowledge and it also talks about being efficient in the workflow. so yeah i think you'll benefit from it.

 

cheers,

[Aqualung]

Hi Alex,

 

i would strongly recommend getting the particular book you are talking about

 

Thanks Stan! It's little pricey (was not able to find it second hand so far) but looks like to be a good investment so far.

[anejo]

I am also intend to purchase "3ds Max 2009 Architectural Visualization Intermediate to Advanced" book, and was wondering if it's worth it?

 

Thanks!

 

I would recommend the 3Dats Intermediate to adv book and also the Adv to Expert book. I reference these books often.

 

This link will also help when starting out.

http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/VI/default.asp

[Stan Zaslavsky]

Hi Alex,

it'll be well worth your investment and if you do this as a business - you can probably claim it as your education expenses.

i found it invaluable in the beginning in setting up my workflow and optimising my models.

i'm sure you can develop your own workflow without the book as reference - its a good shortcut and they share pretty openly from their many years of experience.

cheers,

[Aqualung]

Hi Alex,

it'll be well worth your investment and if you do this as a business - you can probably claim it as your education expenses.

i found it invaluable in the beginning in setting up my workflow and optimising my models.

i'm sure you can develop your own workflow without the book as reference - its a good shortcut and they share pretty openly from their many years of experience.

cheers,

 

Thanks Stan! I was wondering if it's possible to check if anybody here is selling their used copies? I just invested into some newer equipment and money is pretty tight right now.

[Jane Namenye]

I can get around basic modeling little better now but my texturing and lighting knowledge is very limited.

 

OK! Take a look at this recent discussion of exterior lighting using mental ray.

 

http://forums.cgarchitect.com/35393-outdoor-lighting.html#post246106

 

Some other things to plan in advance:

Are you going for photorealism?

Do you want the windows to reflect or show what's inside?

[Aqualung]

OK! Take a look at this recent discussion of exterior lighting using mental ray.

 

 

Some other things to plan in advance:

Are you going for photorealism?

Do you want the windows to reflect or show what's inside?

 

I am using Vray and linear workflow. I would like to learn both photorealistic and artistic rendering.

[Jane Namenye]

Here is a DVD on lighting exteriors in VRAY. Gnomon DVD

 

Have you done any more work on this scene? I'm curious how it's progressing.