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Realtime Visualisation Software

nisus

By nisus,
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Guest Hosmer

Guest Hosmer

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When you mention 'realtime vr' do you just mean web-based stuff like Cosmo or vrml, or the more advanced flight/military sim software?

 

We've built three entire interactive realtime cities (Toronto 2008, Buffalo, Ft. Erie) using Multigen Creator. It's expensive, awkward but the best.

 

DP

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trey Newbie

trey

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cult 3D is excellent. i took a rendering

of a int auditorium, baked most of the textures

individualyy and created a 3D /intranet-website.

Within the website I am able to move things around and add urls to objects.

 

It is literally like quake and it was easy and

fast to do.

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Guest saturnfive

Guest saturnfive

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I read somewhere that NVidea just bought the cubic render thingy...maybe this means we'll get some sort of realtime thing for free with a decent GF card :)

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nisus Newbie

nisus

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Hi all,

 

3D World issue 32 / page 15: "Cubicspace has cut the cost of RTRE it's real-time rendering system for 3dsmax and Autodesk VIZ to just £1,099. The move is a major boost for rtre, which originally retailed for £4,995, and comes in response to market demand."

 

rgds

 

nisus

 

ps: careful, prices are in pounds, not dollars or euros

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mycat Newbie

mycat

Posted
Posted

Wildtangent can do the job as same as Cult3d or Virtool and even better.The most important thing make me fall in love with it is that you can download all tools of WIldtangent and "taste" them for free before you dicide to publish a game with it and pay the lic.

Here is one of rough Demo I made.It is Walkthru Demo.Welcom any comment.

URL for demo:http://www.cn-bassano.com/incoming/temp/user628/rt3d/Sponza%20demo.exe

Be sure to read the readme.txt and tips.jpg first.

Here is one of the screenshot:

tips.jpg

 

[ December 02, 2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: mycat ]

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pailhead Newbie

pailhead

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Hi Seismograph, can those two eon presentations be found elsewhere. I am really interested in what Eon studio or Eon Raptor? can do, especially with sponza atrium project with which i am familiar with.

 

Also which of these, Eon studio Virtools and Quest 3d has the best result/effort ratio?

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joske Newbie

joske

Posted
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hello ppls

my first post here ;)

 

pls try to keep two things seperated here : offline 3D engines and web 3D engines. So keep in mind the 'web' factor here!

you can do much better with offline realtime 3D engines, but in our case we go online...we do some web3D stuff with very huge city models. This means we have to keep the download files small enough to keep them 'downloadable'. So compression is the key word!

 

We tried alot of web3D (eon, turntools, quest, ...) for our 3D city model of gent, it just didn't work, only cult3D did the job :

 

The scale of the city-model requiers it to be in referenced parts in 3Dmax (streets) and then to replace only the parts when they are updated. this keeps us from recompressing the whole model everytime one house changes...

also with the big numbers of textures used, the textures need to be compressed in al kinds of groups and sorts to squize the last kb out of them (online files remember), and keep the original model and textures in max for other renders and movies... this was only possible to achief in cult3D.

(to my experience so far)

 

so in our case cult3d was the only package to handle our cities online...

check out one of the 3d cities here :

 

http://www.gent3D.be

 

To give an idea of how big the model is :167260 polygons and 231 textures

al squized in just +- 5MB

the original max file and textures are like more then 300-400 MB all together

if you have a good 3Dcard in your system the model can be viewed full screen without any problem... on the site we kept it smaller, cause everyone has to be able to use it, this is why we put some less heavy versions online to.

 

hope this example can inspire you guys :cool:

 

cheers

 

phil

 

oh, and don't forget the http://www.skylinesoft.com package

we are testing this package to have the whole country online! :D

however this package workes with a streamable database of aerial photographs, you can intergrate a small amount of textured 3D polygons, but nothing as big as gent3D. check it out...

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quizzy Newbie

quizzy

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As you all know my favorite package is Quest3D by Act3D. Read this post for more information about the project I did with it:

 

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/showthread.php?t=970

 

Well, I also did an online version of a piece of this big city project. You can download it here:

 

http://www.3idee.nl/projecten/project_vrutrecht/vredenburg.exe

 

Some statistics:

26000 faces, 105 textures (but all hi-res)

file size: 5,4 MB.

 

Could I make the whole city this size?? Nope, the geometry alone will be 30MB zip-compressed. There are over 300 textures used, all hi-res, which is another 30MB zip-compressed. Actually there are 2 cities in one file, so you could devide both 30 megs by 2 and that leaves us to 2 times 15MB. Unpacked the file is 170MB in size.

 

In reply to phil, could quest3D or for that mather any other package be used for online content as "big" as gent3d?? Yes..Would the filesize be the same as 5 MB?? Yes.. or somewhere close to it. Why? Explanation:

167000 faces will for instance be compressed to 1 or 2 MB. It does not matter what program you used. The textures is a different story. What resolution did you use for the textures? I think gent3d didn't use textures with higher resolutions than 128x128. And I also noticed that they didn't use alpha channels which ad another 8 bit to a texture. I don't know if cult3d can use JPG compressed textures. Quest3d can, but they will be stored without compression, since directX only supports uncompressed textures. Not quite true, cause there is something called DDS filetype which is compressed.

 

In short:

I must say that cult3d does a nice job in putting menu's around the 3d viewing window. So yes, keeping online in mind, cult3d would be suited, cause its more flexible towards the web. But I allmost know for sure that size, in this case, does not matter... ;-)

 

BTW: Testing my big scene is over.. and for screenshots go to my website.

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joske Newbie

joske

Posted
Posted
The textures is a different story. What resolution did you use for the textures? I think gent3d didn't use textures with higher resolutions than 128x128. And I also noticed that they didn't use alpha channels which ad another 8 bit to a texture. I don't know if cult3d can use JPG compressed textures. Quest3d can, but they will be stored without compression, since directX only supports uncompressed textures. Not quite true, cause there is something called DDS filetype which is compressed.

 

In short:

I must say that cult3d does a nice job in putting menu's around the 3d viewing window. So yes, keeping online in mind, cult3d would be suited, cause its more flexible towards the web. But I allmost know for sure that size, in this case, does not matter... ;-)

 

BTW: Testing my big scene is over.. and for screenshots go to my website.

 

is there a way to fly in your example quizzy, it takes me ages to see the whole thing just walking ,... just to see the scale of the project...

I would love a test of your big file man just for comparison, can u link me up to that? this would be the first try of a WEB3D city that I ever saw that even comes close or is better to our gent3D!!! koudos for that man!

 

we use mostly bigger textures than 128 quizzy. added to that keep in mind that we use 9 high quality areal photographs (1024, almost no compression, in total about 2MB online just for these aerial pics), and our gent has double the textures and polygons from your online example, but is still only 5MB, so our gent city model would end up around 10 MB in quest I estimate... :p

however alpha channels are not yet supported ! the developm team from cult tells me that they are working on that... i hope :rolleyes:

 

our textures are unscaled used from the digicam, so they are all about 1000-2000 pixels (varies) in 3Dmax (so we can use them for other purposses)

then when importing the lot : EVERY texture has a costum resize (cult import window) and compression. again they vary between 1024-128(however the 128's are the exeption!), i believe the compression used is JPG, cult uses direct x to, there should be compression however; cause of the small total size... uncompressed jpg is just impossible

 

So to my knowledge this is undoable or very time consuming in other web3d packages (pls correct me if i'm wrong) :

mostly you have to go with uniform texture size and compression (or it takes ages to costum size and compress 200 textures), and/or importing in parts of the model is not possible at all?

 

what about the quest3D? is this possible there? if so is it an acceptable workflow? if it works i want to test it for real immidiately, cause the cult3D license fee is VERY, VERY expensive! whats the pricing for quest3D?

 

download size is important for 3D graphic card buffers, once full, the framerate just drops dead or textures are not shown, otherwise u have to go to software acceleration, and all goes slower and whitout anti-alias...

so size is crucial for compability with everybody on the net even the slowest pcs around without 3d cards.

 

 

cheers

 

phil

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joske Newbie

joske

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Posted

here's a screen of the high quality of the facade textures

we limit the online users to go this deep and close in the model for compability reasons

and there is the 'object detection' prob : flying in cult you can go trough the model, so we prefer to limit the height of the camera on top of the roofs

 

in walking mode there is obj detection, howerver we feel the walking mode in cult is to slow and the model is not yet optimised for that kind of viewing

 

we have some convincing tests with some seperate streets and squares, where we can up the overal quality just because of the smaller amount of m² ers covered.

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muzzy Newbie

muzzy

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Posted
Hi Seismograph, can those two eon presentations be found elsewhere. I am really interested in what Eon studio or Eon Raptor? can do, especially with sponza atrium project with which i am familiar with.

 

Also which of these, Eon studio Virtools and Quest 3d has the best result/effort ratio?

I used Eon Reality & Raptor for a web3D presentation.All the textures are baked texture with Radiosity. Some baked textures are sized to 1024x1024. Eon raptor converts directly from Max Material into Eon. In addition to that, you can assigne functions like door opening, object movements in 3ds Max. This project 85 % done in Max.

 

BTW, I like quest 3D engine, the best part is distribution of file as exe.

It is same as RTRE, it is in my list too. RTRE supports RPC People which is a great option. I will give a try in my spare time.

 

I also work with Quake III Arena representations as an option for realtime representations. It is not Web 3D but can be a serious option fort nice representations.

 

Video Capture

http://www.missouri.edu/~mt9p9/p1/real-time/capture/eon.avi

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