Modeling help

[Aqualung]

Hi guys,

 

2 newbie questions

What is the most correct way of making window openings arched?

and how do I actually make all the openings precisely the same size in first place? Let's say I have dozens of them? How do you clone/copy within the object in this context?

 

Thanks!

[Aqualung]

Anyone?

[mesht]

are u using cad to contruct the windows elev then open it in max?

for my way of working it, i would create the arch in cad itself and array them

[Nats]

The way I would do it also is to draw the windows in Autocad first and import the arched lines as legacy archicad elements onto the elevation to use to model from.

 

I would select the two edges above each window arch and the arch soffit and 'connect' those polys about eight times to split up the polygons. Then I would go to vertex level and manually move each of the 16 vertices on the arch soffit to match the autocad drawn arches for each opening. You could possibly then smooth out the arch soffit using a smoothing group. Thats if the arches are in a solid wall such as brick.

 

If the arches are part of a stone feature lintol or are arched brick voussiours I would probably draw the stone feature as a spline and extrude it into a solid shape and then locate it onto each wall above each window.

 

A variation on the above would be to draw the whole wall including the arch windows as a 2d spline with arched windows as attached splines and then just extrude the whole thing the depth of the cavity wall and delete any redundant polygon faces (inner faces etc) that you dont need.

 

Hope that helps.

[Aqualung]

Thanks a lot guys, I am not using Autocad. I only have Max.

So I understand there is no easy way of replicating part of the poly object to another area of the same object?

8 segments are enough?

Applying turbosmooth to entire poly object just to round some arches scares me a lot.

[cupsster]

Try to experiment with smooth by smoothing groups checker but first assign correct smoothing groups to respective faces.

[Nats]

Thanks a lot guys, I am not using Autocad. I only have Max.

So I understand there is no easy way of replicating part of the poly object to another area of the same object?

8 segments are enough?

Applying turbosmooth to entire poly object just to round some arches scares me a lot.

 

No turbosmooth is only useful for rounding whole elements. For the arches you just want to select each arch soffit and then apply a smoothing group to it - this will make them look smooth without needing a high poly count. Exactl;y the same thing is done with a cylindr object - it has a smoothing group applied to the curved edge and a separate smoothing roup applied to the stright surfaces. By using two smoothing groups it retains the sharp edge. If it had the same smoothing roup applied all over it would be the same as applying a turbo smooth over the cylinder - it would look like a pill shape with rounded corners.

 

If I was you I would take a look here:

 

http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/sv_videonav.php?fid=81f1fa27604fbc21734bbd1535683e7d

 

Look through those AT-AT videos they show smoothing groups in use quite a bit, apart from that they are a brilliant way to learn great poly modelling.

 

PS You should get some CAD software - I use it all the time for drawing elevations and lines for loft paths etc, its far far easier than messing around with 3dsmax and its terrible drafting tools (if you can call them that).

Edited April 14, 2010 by Nats

[Peter M. Gruhn]

> What is the most correct way of making window openings arched?

 

I will rarely claim to show "the most correct" way of doing something.

 

A way is to lay out the the wall with shapes. You can make circles and rectangles. Attach them all together into one big shape and use trim to get the windows how you like, then remember to weld all the verts back together. Then extrude. I don't like this because it lets max chose where to put the geometry and max's answer is usually "not with pretty rectangles" like yours. And those pretty rectangles are a good thing. So instead I offer the attached image.

 

You've got your base wall. Yours already has a hole in it, I guess. Mine doesn't. No worries.

 

Turn on 3d snaps. Vertex and Midpoint.

Create. Shapes. Circle.

Turn on Autogrid so the circle is made right on top of the wall.

Snap the circle center to the midpoint of the window.

Snap the radius to the corner of the window.

 

Turn of Midpoint snap (just because you usually don't want it and it will only piss you off later if left on)

 

Modify the circle. Turn interpolation up or down depending on how many sides you'll need. Talking about total sides of a full circle - it has to be pretty small for 8 to be enough. 12(what we've got here) is adequate at getting "circleness" across yet still visibly straight edged. 16 is often good enough. 32 should look pretty good for all but the close ups. You can always use "boatloads" if you have to. For the 16 sided circle, Interpolation: 3.

 

Wall needs to be an editable poly, either add modifier or collapse/convert... whatever.

 

Use Cut tool. I like to be in face mode when I do this and think it has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome.

Make sure snap to verts is still on.

Start at one of the window corners at the edge of the circle. Trace around to the other side. Right click to stop this cut. Right click again to stop cutting at all.

 

Select faces.

Delete.

 

Delete neighbour faces.

Select the arched top face.

Make sure snap to verts is still on.

Use the move tool.

Hold shift down.

Grab this face by an upper corner vert.

Move (clone) it to one of the holes. Snap to the corner vert.

Do it again.

 

If you have trouble selecting the bit to copy and snapping to its corner at the same time, you can select it first then lock the selection by hitting spacebar. With the selection locked you can concentrate on snapping to the correct vert for a handle. I found it took some practice so don't be daunted.

 

The cloned little panels above the windows are still free floating elements. The need to be brought back into the main mesh.

 

Go to vertex mode. Select all the verts. Weld them.

 

If you pull out the hold edges or add a shell or something you may need to smooth the insides of the arches to get them to shade rounded rather than faceted.

 

Go watch these three tuts: http://area.autodesk.com/accessdenied?/tutorials/inorganic_modeling_fundamentals_part_1

 

OK, you can probably fast forward through the later stuff at this point in your career. Note that his end target will have a Turbosmooth stuck on it. This impacts our work in two obvious ways: He uses 8 sided circles because the smooth will increase their roundness; He adds a lot of loops near folds to control the radius of a bend. If you are sticking with really hard sharp models you won't need triple loop corners. There is still a lot of value in watching how he manipulates the base geometry. Both specific tools and techniques and overall workflow and fluidity.

 

 

> and how do I actually make all the openings precisely the same size in first place?

 

The above tuts will help illuminate what I'm trying to say. This does really want a video, I think.

 

In an editable poly:

 

There are lots of little buttons and twitches to help make your life easier. I've highlighted a few of my favourites.

 

Here's a "trick".

Select an edge.

Hit loop. You get a line of edges.

Now you can move those edges all over the place.

Turn on "Lock To X". Now you can move them only in one direction.

But still you can move them "too far."

Turn on "Constraints: Edge". Now you can move them only as far as the next set of edges.

Better lock the selection before you lose it. Smack the space bar.

Down at the bottom of the screen is the Absolute/Offset Mode Transform Typein Button. Gadzooks. Give it a hit. Now you can just type "48" in the x box (PS2 is way better) and the selection will move exactly 48 inches in the x direction.

 

You can select different edges across the object before hitting loop so you control more than one loop at a time. Need five window gaps all 48" wide? Do them all at once.

 

When you make your initial plane, make it to a known size. Select a number of divisions that gives you usefully sized panels. Or, just make it one big panel and use edge connect to create more edge loops when and where you need them.

 

Chamfering an edge loop is a nice way to get you two loops in almost the same place. But I recently noticed Split and think it might have a place in helping precision, even though it needs an extra bridge step later.

 

I haven't touched on the Graphite tools which extend this modelling approach. Two reasons: Start simple, add on more stuff; I'm not that familiar with the tools as I had serious stability issues when I tried them, so I stopped using them ;-). There's lots of joy in that toolset, don't get locked in to just the old school edit poly modify stuff before you start poking around in there.

 

> How do you clone/copy within the object in this context?

 

If you move something in max while holding the shift key you make a copy. Select the faces that define the thing in question. Move them with shift down and you make a new element. This element can then be moved and shitf-copied willy nilly. Use snaps to lock things to place. When you are done, weld all the verts to get you back to one element and contiguous geometry. If you want.

[Brian Smith]

you can try week 26's video

 

http://3dats.com/tutorials.asp

[Aqualung]

Thanks guys! You are the best.

I'm going to take time now and read carefully your tips and practice.

 

I have also purchased 3Dats intermediate to advanced book, hope it will help to improve my skills.

[Aqualung]

>

Turn on "Lock To X".

 

Axis locks do not work in sub-object mode?

[Peter M. Gruhn]

Sure they do.

[Aqualung]

Sure they do.

 

Hierarchy panel > Link info > Locks?

 

Doesn't do anything for any of the sub object modes. My Max is acting up or I'm in the wrong place?

[DelfoZ]

Hierarchy panel > Link info > Locks?

 

Doesn't do anything for any of the sub object modes. My Max is acting up or I'm in the wrong place?

 

Not sure if you have this already check.

Grid and Snap settings / Use Axis constraints