Who did the Ettihad Towers animation?

[wasteland giant]

Anyhow, the buildings (design) might not be much but the project can't be cheap. Lots of interior work/exterior/nightshot too + camera matching.

 

I don't think this job has been costed at a per minute mark. There's way to much work here for it to be $1500/minute. Probably all up in the $200k mark? You'll need an army to do it all.

[dinhtuan]

It would of been nice if they bothered stablizing the presumably expensive helicopter footage at the start. In fact the camera moves are awful throughout the whole animation, very awkward.

 

I dont know why its 6 minutes long either, could of explained the building in 2-3 minutes far better.

 

anyway - good luck with it ihakbal.

 

I think its different bettwen East and West, pp here want to see smt slow for them easy catch every coner of project. at Viet nam we are almost do the same animation, Clients alway ask to have 5-10 mins and they build one room only for show that. When home buyer come they will have time to watch the animation, see the brochure and drink smt. Normaly we do one long animation after that cut to some version shorter: 2-3 min for web and present project on TV, 30s-1mins for TVC. Sometime we do short version firsh and then longer but waklthought animation is standard here.

 

about price for Etthad Tower animation, I think its cost about $100/s($6k/min) if China, India or VietNam do (helicopter shoot not included)

 

just my 2c

[TAKA]

Hey Ihabkal,

I would go with most people's opinion of not doing it. 1500$ / min for six minutes, that's 9,000$. U'll need quite a few artists to help you out in such an endeavour.

Let's say you have 3 months to complete this and do some quick calculations.

3 artists beside you on the project, juniors maybe. I know for a fact that you can pay them between 800$ and 1000$ / month.

That's 3 x 1000$ = 3000$ / artist for the job, that's 3000$ x 3 = 9000$ for artists.

Add to that, your expenses. Do you have enough machines for your artists? Do you have a render farm or will you be renting one?

You'll be calling the client a lot of time (international calls). Electricity, All nighters, etc....

Already at this stage you've spent at least 3-4K$ out of your pocket.

Excuse my question, but how is this helping you pay your debts?

I know the market here, i've been doing this for over 10 years now (although we've branched out into VFX more now).

I used to take 100-200$ per view 10 years ago. Now i don't take anything for less than 4K$, not for a view, but 4K$ is what we need to start a project, at least for middle eastern clients because they're such time wasters. They drag you for weeks as if time was free. They have no concept of the value of time.

 

A simple rule to quote a project: How much is your day / hour worth?

Multiply it by number of hours/ days to complete the project and you've got yourself a number!

Sometimes you need to buffer that time a bit because you know it will drag, sometimes you can cut down a bit.

Of course if you have a team helping you, you need to value their time as well and add it.

 

There are still a lot of people in this region and especially in lebanon who are willing to pitch for peanuts in such projects with big hopes such as "at least we're opening a door for bigger projects, the next one will pay off". If you're charging 1,500$ / min on this one, there's no way you charge 15K$ on the next project. I mean you can but you won't get it.

 

Sorry for the long speech, but take it from a fellow compatriot, learn to say NO.

 

Cheers

[neil poppleton]

Hey Ihabkal,

 

"at least we're opening a door for bigger projects, the next one will pay off". If you're charging 1,500$ / min on this one, there's no way you charge 15K$ on the next project. I mean you can but you won't get it.

 

Cheers

 

Clients talking about more work in the future so keep your fee low this time. I agree it rarely if ever happens......Its like dealing with second hand car salesman...

[ihabkal]

Hi Amine,

you're right on the money, thanks for the long detailed reply, sometimes you think about things and you think you are the only one thinking it, and then someone puts it in prespective in such a way you understand things better.

We should meet as soon as you have some free time tot alk about business in Lebanon.

[Justin Hunt]

Clients talking about more work in the future so keep your fee low this time. I agree it rarely if ever happens......Its like dealing with second hand car salesman...

 

When a prospective client tries this one on me I reply, when weve done 10 projects together, then you get the discounts.

 

jhv

[Justin Hunt]

ihabkal - What have you decided to do? I'd be interested to hear the client reaction

 

jhv

[ihabkal]

Hi Justin,

a few days ago I sent the client a link with this post when it only had two pages full, he got offended and sent me an "if you don't want to work for us don't" e-mail, I didn't see this e-mail it got sent to my trash folder, the next day he called me for a meeting, I went to see him and I told him I would do it but on my own pace putting it aside when I get high paying jobs, he agreed. then I read the e-mail and I was disappointed that I went.

We then told his boss about the condition of putting the job aside when I am busy and he said no we don't want that we need you to work on it full time, but he later accepted that condition when he felt that was the only way I could do it.

[Justin Hunt]

interesting turn of event, basically it goes to show that communication is key and you shouldn't be afraid to walk away from a job, and that before your clients will show any respect you've got to respect yourself first.

 

I hope that things turn out well and can only suggest you keep the client informed as to when you are/not working on the job and when you can get back onto it. Keep a record of all communications for future reference should things turn petty.

 

good luck

 

jhv

[Ernest Burden III]

Watching that (or the part I saw before having to stop the pain) made me want to puke. I'm dizzy. They did a great job modeling the towers and context. I know because I had modeled the same towers and context for an animation project nearby. Mine was design-development/NPR so not so detailed. But they missed the fact that there are several high-rises planned for neighboring sites, and that the island in front of the towers is to be a mini-resort tied to their subject. So they got SOME details, but not all. Either you are going for real or you are not. Pick one and do it well.

 

To do new work--would you get the model already built to render from? The towers are so tall that you would have to model a LOT of context. There must be models of Abu Dhabi out there, but I couldn't find any, did it by hand from aerial photos.

[FlytE]

Ihab,

 

Dont take this the wrong way but I think the trick to this is to be smarter about your workflow and stronger negotiator regarding fees. You need to convince them that they would be loosing a HUGE amount financially if they have a 3D animation that did not fulfil their marketing requirements later down the line. By ensuring that they understand the damaging long term implications of cutting costs at this stage, you will likely be able to convince them that their money is being well invested in you.

 

Where workflow is concerned Get a renderfarm to render it for you for like $2k, get yourself a couple of freelancers to churn out the modelling at a really good rate, and tell the client that in todays climate its not possible to do it at the agree cost but in fact will cost them closer to say $40 k (or whatever fee you feel is suitable). Not only will you get it done faster but it will be less stress for you

 

Good luck

[amer abidi]

...keep the client informed as to when you are/not working on the job and when you can get back onto it. Keep a record of all communications for future reference should things turn petty.

 

good luck

 

jhv

 

I second Justin's advise. Very wise words.

You can almost see them not handing in your final payment when the job is done because they "didnt know it would take THIS long!!".

 

Keep a log of all communications I say.

 

Good luck anyway.